Planes, trains, buses, and boats. Andy Lord has it all in London

Paul Comfort: 00:00:05

This is Transit Unplugged.

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I'm Paul Comfort, and on today's episode of the podcast, we

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have a special treat for you.

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We have as our guest, really the top transportation official in

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the world from the largest transit system, Andrew Lord, or Andy Lord.

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He is the Commissioner of Transport for London, TfL.

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He's London's most senior transport official.

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Been in the job now for over a year.

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He was appointed on an interim basis in October of 2022 after his predecessor,

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Andy Byford, left the agency.

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Now he has been appointed on the permanent basis in June of 2023.

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So just about a year holding the position.

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And on today's episode, we talk about everything you think we would talk about.

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His background, his career.

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Some of the big challenges and successes of the agency, what's

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happening with congestion charging and the ultra low emission zone, those

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have special importance in the U.

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S.

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as the City of New York is moving toward congestion charging next month.

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We talk about microtransit and e bikes, the new Superloop bus service with routes

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around the city, the bus franchising model, how it works there in London and

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how it's spreading throughout the U.

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K., some new technologies that TfL is looking to embrace in the future, And

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how they're moving toward a zero emission fleet and how that's all working there.

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The Elizabeth Line and so many more things.

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I think you're really going to enjoy this deep dive into the world's largest

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transit system with the Commissioner of Transport for London, Andy Lord.

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And if you Enjoy the podcast after you listen to it.

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Leave us a rating, wherever you listen, whether it's on Apple

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iTunes, Spotify, or somewhere else.

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Leave us a rating and a comment so we can know what you think, and it'll

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help more ears get to listen to the good news of public transportation.

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Now let's dive into our conversation with Andy Lord, Commissioner

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of Transport for London.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:49

Thank you so much, Andy, for joining us on the show.

Andy Lord: 00:01:51

Pleasure, Paul.

Andy Lord: 00:01:52

Thanks for the invite and, delighted to join you.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:54

Yeah, great to have you.

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We've been working on this for probably nine months.

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As soon as you got appointed back in October, I think I was emailing you

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saying, Hey, you want to come on?

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And I think you said, Hey, let me get my feet wet a little bit first.

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So anyway, glad to have you on.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:09

You're, you're coming up to celebrate your first full year as the, you know,

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the official commissioner, right?

Andy Lord: 00:02:15

Correct.

Andy Lord: 00:02:15

Yeah.

Andy Lord: 00:02:16

I, I was appointed in June last year.

Andy Lord: 00:02:18

I held the position on an interim basis after my previous successor, Andy Byford.

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Left in October.

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so yeah, coming up to I guess 18 months in total, but 12 months officially.

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It's been a really action packed first year.

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Really proud of what we've, achieved and hugely honoured and privileged to

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be, leading London's transport system.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:36

from what I hear, it's going amazing.

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You're doing an amazing job.

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you know, I know I'm on the other side of the pond here, but I stay

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in tune with what's happening there.

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And, maybe if you don't mind, give us a few glimpses into, you know, the

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highlights of the year, how you feel things have gone, any big, projects

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you've undertaken and how they're going.

Andy Lord: 00:02:52

Yeah, sure.

Andy Lord: 00:02:52

I mean, as I say, it's been, it's been a momentous year actually

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for us as an organization.

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We've, for the first time in our history, we've, achieved an operating

Andy Lord: 00:03:01

surplus, financial, perspective.

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So, cover the cost of our operations for the first time in TfL's history,

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which is a remarkable achievement.

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It's a 3.

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1 billion pound turnaround over the last three years.

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so that's, you know, at a business level, that's hugely important.

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Of course, every pound of surplus we make is a pound we reinvest

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into the network and into our customers and into our colleagues.

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at an operational level, we've completed, what we call the Superloop, which is our

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express bus network around outer London.

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it's been hugely successful.

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That's gone from literally being an idea on a small piece of paper, to the

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launch of, nine routes, across, around the whole of outer London, in, about nine

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months, which is a remarkable achievement.

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I'm hugely proud of everybody involved with that.

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we completed the final phase of the Elizabeth line, so Andy, my

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predecessor, who you know well, did an amazing job, getting the Elizabeth

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line actually open and connected.

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But we did the final timetable uplift, in May last year, we're now

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running 24 trains an hour, through the central section connecting Heathrow

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in the west to Sheffield in the east.

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it's carried well over 350 million passengers in the year, which is,

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a remarkable achievement with huge, levels of, customer satisfaction,

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and operational performance, which we're really, really proud of.

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so there's those elements.

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We've, of course, London, as you know, has a huge number of ceremonial events,

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and events like the London Marathon.

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we, of course, had the coronation, of their majesties, King

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Charles III and Queen Camilla.

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That was a huge event for the city and the nation, but it was a huge event for

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TfL in terms of our role of, managing the transport for, the coronation.

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And they've done a huge amount, on our net zero.

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Journey, of course, the expansion of the ultra low emission zone

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in August last year, the largest, low emission zone in the world.

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London is a leading city, really is driving air quality improvement.

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that was an immense task and it's gone extremely well.

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so, they're just some of the highlights.

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I've missed many out, but, you know, hugely grateful for the

Andy Lord: 00:05:01

incredible colleagues that we have across TfL who've done such

Andy Lord: 00:05:04

amazing things over the last year.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:05

Well, bravo to you.

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Tell us, how big is TfL?

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Kind of give us a scope of, you know, the types of service you operate, how

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many employees, all that kind of stuff.

Andy Lord: 00:05:14

Yeah, so we, depending on what measure you use, we are

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the largest integrated public transport authority in the world.

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so, we run all the buses in London.

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We have a fleet of 9, 000 buses, largest fleet of buses in Europe, half

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of all buses in the UK are in London.

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we run the Underground, the oldest metro system in the world, about

Andy Lord: 00:05:34

600 trains operating each day.

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between the buses and the Tube, they carry, about, 8 to

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9 million passengers, per day.

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we then have London Overground, the Docklands Light Railway, the The

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London Trams, the Elizabeth Line, they carry between them about another

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three million passengers per day.

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So we're carrying about eleven to twelve million passengers a day across London.

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We're also responsible for the strategic road network, all the traffic signals

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in London, river services, the Woolwich Ferry, which is a ferry in the east,

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London Cable Car, just for good measure, and then we have, the cycle hire scheme.

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as well, and we license all the taxi and private hire vehicles across the city.

Andy Lord: 00:06:13

we have about 28, 000 colleagues directly employed by TfL

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across, all those services.

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And then we have another 25, 000 bus drivers who are employed

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by, companies on our behalf.

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And then about another 20, 000, across the wider supply chain,

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providing services on our behalf.

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And then on top of that, TfL, is directly responsible for about

Andy Lord: 00:06:34

100, 000 jobs in the wider supply chain and industry across, the UK.

Andy Lord: 00:06:39

our operating costs, about 9 billion sterling a year.

Andy Lord: 00:06:44

And as I say, we've just achieved our first operating surplus, which,

Andy Lord: 00:06:47

isn't public yet, but, it'll be round about 100 million ish, pound sterling.

Andy Lord: 00:06:52

So that's all I'll hopefully use this scale of what we do.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:55

That's amazing.

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tell us about the structure of TfL you're part of the city government

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there, right, under, the mayor.

Andy Lord: 00:07:02

Correct.

Andy Lord: 00:07:02

We're, we're a public sector organization, wholly owned subsidiary of the Greater

Andy Lord: 00:07:06

London Assembly, which was, a devolved, part of government that London has its own

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governance, if you like, within the UK.

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The mayor, is responsible for leading that.

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We actually have, the London mayoral election is taking place tomorrow.

Andy Lord: 00:07:18

It happens every four years, so I'll know, the weekend, who, the new mayor

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will be, or if it's the same mayor.

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the mayor is currently chair of TfL so we have a board of non

Andy Lord: 00:07:28

executives, appointed by the mayor.

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we have a deputy mayor of transport who is our deputy chair, so my day to

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day dealings with the deputy mayor.

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but, the mayor holds me and our executive to account, so then the London wide

Andy Lord: 00:07:40

assembly who are also, being elected tomorrow, they then hold both the mayor

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and myself to account in terms of how we spend, public funds, and that side of it.

Andy Lord: 00:07:50

And then, we get the majority of our funding through passenger income.

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Obviously, but we do get devolved funding through what we call

Andy Lord: 00:07:57

business rates, which comes from London businesses and homeowners.

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Through the COVID pandemic, we've received grant funding from central government, but

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prior to the pandemic, that had all gone, so we were standing on our own two feet.

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Because the dire impact the pandemic had on our finances, we went to government

Andy Lord: 00:08:14

and we've received funding from them.

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But we're now on our own two feet again at an operating level.

Andy Lord: 00:08:18

So, the government, if they, if we make a suitable business case, they will provide

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us with funding for major infrastructure and fleet renewals going forward.

Andy Lord: 00:08:26

But otherwise we now stand on our own two feet.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:29

Tell me about your background, some coming from

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the airline industry and how you ended up where you're at.

Andy Lord: 00:08:34

Yeah, so I'm an engineer by background.

Andy Lord: 00:08:36

I did an apprenticeship and degree, very fortunately sponsored by British Airways.

Andy Lord: 00:08:41

I worked for BA for 26 years straight from school, held numerous roles with them.

Andy Lord: 00:08:46

Including time out at Boeing in Seattle, a lot of time in the UK regions.

Andy Lord: 00:08:51

ended up on BA's executive committee for, about seven and a half years.

Andy Lord: 00:08:56

left BA in 2015 on very good terms, but it felt like it was the

Andy Lord: 00:08:59

right time to 26 years with them.

Andy Lord: 00:09:02

had an amazing, career and time with the airline and I'm very, very fond of it.

Andy Lord: 00:09:06

spent some time with a company called John Menzies who are a

Andy Lord: 00:09:09

big aviation services provider.

Andy Lord: 00:09:11

Uh, Running UK, Europe, Middle East, Africa and India.

Andy Lord: 00:09:14

Worked for them for about two and a half years.

Andy Lord: 00:09:16

had a very successful period with them.

Andy Lord: 00:09:18

and then left and, uh, was approached to join, uh, TfL as

Andy Lord: 00:09:22

Managing Director of the Tube.

Andy Lord: 00:09:24

just four months before, the pandemic I started, so, so I've been here

Andy Lord: 00:09:28

just coming up to, five years.

Andy Lord: 00:09:30

I was MD of the Tube for most of that time, became COO when Andy Byford

Andy Lord: 00:09:35

restructured us in February 22, and then, as we've already discussed,

Andy Lord: 00:09:38

Commissioner, at the end of 2022.

Andy Lord: 00:09:41

I also, am a non executive director for, one of the subsidiaries

Andy Lord: 00:09:45

of the UK Ministry of Defence.

Andy Lord: 00:09:46

so I, sit on the board of their procurement agency, which is really

Andy Lord: 00:09:50

interesting and, gives a different insight into how government works

Andy Lord: 00:09:53

and of course a critical role for, supporting the UK's armed forces.

Andy Lord: 00:09:58

so I do that.

Andy Lord: 00:09:59

I've also been a non-tech director for the UK UK's air traffic control

Andy Lord: 00:10:03

organization for eight years.

Andy Lord: 00:10:05

so quite a broad background, but all in transport operations, engineering.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:09

So, what lessons did you take?

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I know there's probably tons of them, but one or two that, you know, from the

Paul Comfort: 00:10:14

aviation industry that you were able to apply in the public transit industry.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:18

I mean, both of them are people in big silver tubes, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:10:21

But, but one's in the air, one's on the ground, and one's run by government,

Paul Comfort: 00:10:24

the other's run by private companies.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:26

So, tell us your observations on that.

Andy Lord: 00:10:28

Yes, I mean, the most obvious one is obviously the absolute

Andy Lord: 00:10:31

focus on safety and security.

Andy Lord: 00:10:33

All transport sectors have to be absolutely focused, you know,

Andy Lord: 00:10:36

what we do is safety critical.

Andy Lord: 00:10:39

how you mitigate risk, how we ensure we keep our, our customers safe,

Andy Lord: 00:10:43

how we keep our colleagues safe is a big focus and, you know, rightly our

Andy Lord: 00:10:47

customers take that for granted, but we must never take that for granted.

Andy Lord: 00:10:51

So there's a lot of similarity there between aviation

Andy Lord: 00:10:54

and transport, or transit.

Andy Lord: 00:10:56

I think aviation are a bit more proactive, they're a bit more forward thinking

Andy Lord: 00:10:59

in terms of thinking about future risks and how can they use technology.

Andy Lord: 00:11:03

to offset that.

Andy Lord: 00:11:05

and I'm encouraging us to do more to think about that.

Andy Lord: 00:11:07

How can we Particularly as we move forward more into digital signaling,

Andy Lord: 00:11:11

and I think that's a big, big benefit.

Andy Lord: 00:11:13

As you say, massive people leadership, and, trade union, similarities.

Andy Lord: 00:11:18

we have, the most amazing colleagues in, in TfL who are

Andy Lord: 00:11:21

passionate about, the brand.

Andy Lord: 00:11:23

We need to do more to, really put them at the heart of, making

Andy Lord: 00:11:26

TfL a great place to work.

Andy Lord: 00:11:28

and I'm, I'm a great believer if you treat people, with respect, then

Andy Lord: 00:11:31

they will, treat you with respect.

Andy Lord: 00:11:33

And at the same time, if you make them happy in their employment, they will

Andy Lord: 00:11:36

deliver better service to, to your customers, to our customers, which then

Andy Lord: 00:11:40

grows more customers onto the network.

Andy Lord: 00:11:41

So, they're the, they're the big similarities.

Andy Lord: 00:11:45

Of course, From a TfL perspective, we're at both ends of the technology

Andy Lord: 00:11:49

and the, asset, life cycle, if you like.

Andy Lord: 00:11:52

We still have assets that were built by the Victorians, in the

Andy Lord: 00:11:56

1800s and are still in use today.

Andy Lord: 00:11:58

and we have the most amazing people who do incredible things.

Andy Lord: 00:12:01

maintaining and keeping those structures in place.

Andy Lord: 00:12:03

And then at the other end, we have the latest, 21st century technology,

Andy Lord: 00:12:07

putting the latest signaling systems in, bringing new trains in.

Andy Lord: 00:12:10

Elizabeth Line is the best example of that.

Andy Lord: 00:12:12

So it's a real mix of, the old and the new.

Andy Lord: 00:12:16

Whereas in aviation, it's typically nothing's more than

Andy Lord: 00:12:18

about 20, 25 years old, generally.

Andy Lord: 00:12:21

whereas, you know, we've got the oldest fleet of trains running in

Andy Lord: 00:12:24

the UK with the Bakerloo Line fleet.

Andy Lord: 00:12:25

You know, they are, you know, 52 years old this year, and, you know, our teams

Andy Lord: 00:12:30

are doing amazing jobs, keeping them running, so, big capital intensive

Andy Lord: 00:12:34

businesses, and, you know, we've, our customers expect us to deliver

Andy Lord: 00:12:38

safe and reliable services, and, you know, generally we do that very well.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:42

Yes, I'd say you do.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:44

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:44

I, last time I was in London, I rode the Elizabeth Line, by the way, and I mean,

Paul Comfort: 00:12:48

just bravo, you know, and, just fantastic.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:51

It's the way it should be done.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:53

so, and you contract out a lot of it, like that goes to MTR, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:12:56

They're running them, and I had the guy that's the managing director there

Paul Comfort: 00:12:59

on the show one time, but talk to us about that franchising model some.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:03

last time I was in London, I did a big deal.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:05

In the UK, I did a big tour of a bunch of agencies and interviewed them, and

Paul Comfort: 00:13:09

at the time, some of them were talking about taking the franchising model

Paul Comfort: 00:13:12

from London and making it theirs.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:14

I think Transport for Manchester, maybe, is looking at that now, and, agency there,

Paul Comfort: 00:13:19

TfL really is the model for the country, and now it's spreading everywhere, right?

Andy Lord: 00:13:23

Yeah, so we actually have two slightly different models in terms

Andy Lord: 00:13:26

of our franchise and concessions.

Andy Lord: 00:13:28

So on the rail side of it, we have both the overground, The Elizabeth Line, the

Andy Lord: 00:13:33

DLR and trams, where the actual operation of the trains is done through a third

Andy Lord: 00:13:38

party, through a commercial contract.

Andy Lord: 00:13:41

They staff the stations, their drivers drive the trains.

Andy Lord: 00:13:45

In one model, they do the maintenance of the trains as well.

Andy Lord: 00:13:48

In another model, and they're responsible, or they're responsible

Andy Lord: 00:13:51

for the contract management of that.

Andy Lord: 00:13:52

In the other model, we do it ourselves in trams, for example.

Andy Lord: 00:13:55

on the infrastructure, again, in some cases, we're the infrastructure manager.

Andy Lord: 00:14:00

So, the Elizabeth Line, central section, and trams, we are, on the

Andy Lord: 00:14:03

overground, actually, as part of the National Rail Network, so they do that.

Andy Lord: 00:14:07

And on DLR, the concession does it.

Andy Lord: 00:14:09

So, DLR is a hundred percent.

Andy Lord: 00:14:11

Concession run, Elizabeth Line is a hybrid, the overground is

Andy Lord: 00:14:15

a hybrid, and trams is a hybrid.

Andy Lord: 00:14:17

So that's the sort of rail model, and then of course we have the tube,

Andy Lord: 00:14:20

which is 100 percent in source bar from some maintenance activities.

Andy Lord: 00:14:24

On the buses, it's quite different.

Andy Lord: 00:14:26

So on the buses, it is, actually contracted out route by route.

Andy Lord: 00:14:31

so we have, off the top of my head, I think it's eight different

Andy Lord: 00:14:33

bus operating companies who all operate under the TfL roundel.

Andy Lord: 00:14:37

They all operate red buses.

Andy Lord: 00:14:39

they have a minimum standard in terms of what the customers expect and see.

Andy Lord: 00:14:43

it's managed through our main control center.

Andy Lord: 00:14:46

But each operating company is contracted, to operate those routes on, you

Andy Lord: 00:14:51

know, whatever the right commercial terms are, based on the frequency

Andy Lord: 00:14:54

we want, based on route length.

Andy Lord: 00:14:57

And we're using that very much at the moment as how we continue to roll out

Andy Lord: 00:15:01

to try and achieve our objective of, every bus in London being zero emission.

Andy Lord: 00:15:05

Currently by 2034, but we're looking to see how we can accelerate to 2030.

Andy Lord: 00:15:10

And it has proven to be very successful.

Andy Lord: 00:15:12

It's kept costs low.

Andy Lord: 00:15:14

London has the lowest fares for buses in the UK, compared to anywhere else.

Andy Lord: 00:15:19

the operating companies can make a return.

Andy Lord: 00:15:21

I think we're going through a point now, though, where we're looking at

Andy Lord: 00:15:26

If the commercial structure needs reviewing, particularly in light

Andy Lord: 00:15:29

of the investment that's needed, both for the infrastructure and for

Andy Lord: 00:15:32

the additional buses going forward.

Andy Lord: 00:15:34

So there will probably be some slight changes over the next 12, 18 months.

Andy Lord: 00:15:39

But as you say, the model is, It's proven to be very successful, it's

Andy Lord: 00:15:42

delivered huge service benefits to the city, and it's now been adopted

Andy Lord: 00:15:47

by Manchester in particular, who are rolling that out on a very similar basis.

Andy Lord: 00:15:51

And we've supported them in doing that, so they can learn from our mistakes, but also

Andy Lord: 00:15:55

learn from where we have got it right.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:57

You mentioned moving to zero emission buses.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:01

in the U.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:01

S.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:01

we've had a really interesting situation, challenging.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:05

We've gone from five manufacturers of buses that are made in America

Paul Comfort: 00:16:10

so to speak because we have rules about, you know, yet.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:12

If you use federal funds, you have to have 70 percent of the bus by America.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:16

Now we're down to basically two or three, and there's big long

Paul Comfort: 00:16:19

lines, you know, two or three years waiting lines in a lot of cases.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:22

Are you having any challenges like that in the UK and the OEM supply side?

Andy Lord: 00:16:26

not quite as bad as that.

Andy Lord: 00:16:27

I mean, the bus, manufacturing industry are picking up a lot more orders now.

Andy Lord: 00:16:30

we have two main manufacturers in the UK, and then obviously there's

Andy Lord: 00:16:34

a, there's a number in Europe.

Andy Lord: 00:16:35

and we, there are still a lot of buses being, manufactured which

Andy Lord: 00:16:40

are pure diesel, not for London.

Andy Lord: 00:16:42

and we were talking before about particularly in the north of Scotland

Andy Lord: 00:16:46

where I don't think there are any electric vehicles because they don't

Andy Lord: 00:16:49

perform as well in the extreme cold.

Andy Lord: 00:16:51

So diesel is better.

Andy Lord: 00:16:52

The challenge we've got, as I said, we've got 9, 000 buses, we've got about 1, 400

Andy Lord: 00:16:57

at the minute of those are all electric.

Andy Lord: 00:17:00

We've got a very small fleet of about 20 25 hydrogen buses.

Andy Lord: 00:17:04

To go to full zero emission, we need another 7, 000 buses over

Andy Lord: 00:17:10

the next seven years or so.

Andy Lord: 00:17:12

so we've got to think about how we work with the industry to make sure there is

Andy Lord: 00:17:15

the manufacturing capacity, to do that.

Andy Lord: 00:17:17

We're doing some smart thinking around, we have, you know, of those

Andy Lord: 00:17:21

7, 000 existing buses, they're all low emission hybrid buses.

Andy Lord: 00:17:25

How can we work with other cities in the country to roll out our,

Andy Lord: 00:17:28

our existing hybrid buses to cities and towns that currently

Andy Lord: 00:17:33

just have, normal emission buses?

Andy Lord: 00:17:36

Diesel buses, they can get a low emission vehicle at a lower price that enables

Andy Lord: 00:17:41

us to work with manufacturers to then bring in new zero emission buses.

Andy Lord: 00:17:45

So, it's how we can be more smart in terms of working with other parts of

Andy Lord: 00:17:49

the UK and the bus manufacturers to keep that supply of buses going forward.

Andy Lord: 00:17:54

But, yeah, the manufacturers are going to have to look at how they

Andy Lord: 00:17:58

increase capacity, And we're all going to have to think about, you know,

Andy Lord: 00:18:02

will it be acceptable for us to go and buy buses, or our operators to

Andy Lord: 00:18:06

buy buses from Europe, for example.

Andy Lord: 00:18:08

And some do, you know, we have Volvo buses, for example,

Andy Lord: 00:18:12

which are a very good, model.

Andy Lord: 00:18:14

So, that there is, at the minute, supply is not an issue, but the reality is

Andy Lord: 00:18:19

if we want to achieve our objective of going fully zero emission by 2030,

Andy Lord: 00:18:23

it is going to be a big challenge.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:24

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:25

Let's talk about congestion charging.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:26

There's a lot of interest about that here in the U.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:28

S.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:28

now, as New York City is the first American city to adopt

Paul Comfort: 00:18:32

that model from, from the U.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:34

K.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:34

and Singapore and other places who have tried it.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:36

they're gonna start it actually next month, where people will have to pay, a

Paul Comfort: 00:18:39

set fee to get into the congested downtown area south of, 60th in, in Manhattan.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:45

How's that working in London, and maybe any comments on ULEZ the ultra low

Paul Comfort: 00:18:49

emission zone that you mentioned earlier?

Andy Lord: 00:18:50

Yeah, so we actually have three, elements to this in London.

Andy Lord: 00:18:53

We have the congestion charge, which is in the core of, of London.

Andy Lord: 00:18:56

It's been in place for, a number of years now.

Andy Lord: 00:18:58

Works very effectively.

Andy Lord: 00:18:59

It's had a direct, benefit on both traffic volumes and, air quality.

Andy Lord: 00:19:04

The mayor then launched the low emission zone, about five, six years ago, which

Andy Lord: 00:19:08

had a marked improvement in air quality.

Andy Lord: 00:19:10

And then, as we said, we launched the, the ultra low emission zone, which basically

Andy Lord: 00:19:14

covers Not entirely, but largely the area within the M25 motorway around London.

Andy Lord: 00:19:21

It's not a complete, zone, but it's not far off.

Andy Lord: 00:19:23

it's all done through ANPR, automatic number plate recognition through cameras.

Andy Lord: 00:19:28

the data is managed through a third party for us.

Andy Lord: 00:19:32

and it works very effectively.

Andy Lord: 00:19:34

the go life, that we had on August the 29th last year went very smoothly.

Andy Lord: 00:19:38

you know, doesn't cause any congestion.

Andy Lord: 00:19:40

or backlog, you know, there's no entering of, of gates, there's no toll gates,

Andy Lord: 00:19:44

there's no barriers, it's all done by cameras, so from a road user perspective,

Andy Lord: 00:19:50

it's almost, unnoticeable, but it's very efficient and very effective, and

Andy Lord: 00:19:54

yeah, we will, there will be a report in the next, month or so, which will

Andy Lord: 00:19:57

show six months on what the, impact and benefits have been of the ultra low

Andy Lord: 00:20:02

emission zone, and, expansion, we're expecting it to be, very significant.

Andy Lord: 00:20:06

We've already known from our own data that the number of compliant

Andy Lord: 00:20:08

vehicles has increased, and therefore, by default, the air quality should

Andy Lord: 00:20:12

have improved, and we've seen some, congestion, improvements as well.

Andy Lord: 00:20:16

And this is all about, at the same time, you know, some people

Andy Lord: 00:20:19

will say this is us, Having a war on motorists absolutely isn't.

Andy Lord: 00:20:22

It's around improving air quality.

Andy Lord: 00:20:24

At the same time, if it delivers, some traffic, easing, that's, that's great.

Andy Lord: 00:20:29

But it's also around how we provide alternative public transport options for

Andy Lord: 00:20:33

people in the outer areas of the city.

Andy Lord: 00:20:35

So that's why we launched the Superloop.

Andy Lord: 00:20:37

We're looking at doing more bus services in outer London.

Andy Lord: 00:20:40

So, you know, some areas, particularly south of the Thames,

Andy Lord: 00:20:44

have little or poor rail services.

Andy Lord: 00:20:46

There's not much, if you look at the underground map, There's very

Andy Lord: 00:20:49

few tube lines that go south of the River Thames, because of the ground

Andy Lord: 00:20:52

conditions of when the tube was built.

Andy Lord: 00:20:54

So, people south of the river are very reliant on buses, National Rail, or their

Andy Lord: 00:21:00

car, and we need to give them more choice.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:03

And so the money from the congestion charging and ULEZ goes

Paul Comfort: 00:21:06

in to help you expand the service?

Andy Lord: 00:21:08

Yeah, so all, all the proceeds from, the, both the

Andy Lord: 00:21:11

congestion charging and ULEZ are reinvested back into public transport.

Andy Lord: 00:21:16

as I say, all the income we get is focused on, ensuring that we invest

Andy Lord: 00:21:20

in, in the public transport network.

Andy Lord: 00:21:22

ultimately, our business plan shows that our net income Will be flat,

Andy Lord: 00:21:27

because the number of vehicle compliance will increase and therefore, you

Andy Lord: 00:21:31

know, there is only a charge for ULEZ if your vehicle is not compliant.

Andy Lord: 00:21:35

Right.

Andy Lord: 00:21:35

Congestion charge is a charge because it's in the zone where we want to

Andy Lord: 00:21:39

reduce the number of vehicles, but that's a pretty steady number now.

Andy Lord: 00:21:43

but the ULEZ, we expect that income to actually reduce

Andy Lord: 00:21:46

over the next couple of years.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:47

As people get cleaner cars.

Andy Lord: 00:21:49

Indeed.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:50

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:50

So tell us about what's the role of TfL with microtransit?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:54

Like we're coming into warmer weather now, people want to get the

Paul Comfort: 00:21:56

e bikes or scooters or whatever.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:58

Are you all involved in that at all?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:59

And if so, how's it going?

Andy Lord: 00:22:01

Yeah, so we have our own cycle hire scheme, the Santander Cycle Hire.

Andy Lord: 00:22:05

It's largely in the inner parts of London.

Andy Lord: 00:22:09

We have a combination of both e bikes and old school bikes.

Andy Lord: 00:22:14

We're looking to increase our fleet of e bikes.

Andy Lord: 00:22:16

There's a lot of competition now with the sort of, just the, you know, line

Andy Lord: 00:22:20

bikes and forest bikes and that sort of thing, which are, you know, undocked.

Andy Lord: 00:22:24

and we're working closely.

Andy Lord: 00:22:26

through the London boroughs to see how we can be a bit more coordinated on that

Andy Lord: 00:22:29

because that creates a few challenges.

Andy Lord: 00:22:31

We're also responsible for, what we call micro mobility,

Andy Lord: 00:22:35

so the trial of e scooters.

Andy Lord: 00:22:37

e scooters are actually illegal in the UK, privately owned ones.

Andy Lord: 00:22:41

They can't be ridden legally, on the roads or on the pavements.

Andy Lord: 00:22:44

But the government launched a trial, I think it was about three or four years

Andy Lord: 00:22:47

ago, I think it was three A certain number of providers in towns and cities

Andy Lord: 00:22:51

across the UK with geo fenced scooters that can be parked in only certain

Andy Lord: 00:22:56

locations and you hire them and then can sort of ride the last mile or so.

Andy Lord: 00:23:00

So, we're responsible for running that trial.

Andy Lord: 00:23:03

It's proving quite popular.

Andy Lord: 00:23:04

I think there's more to be done around how we have greater coordination and

Andy Lord: 00:23:08

understanding how it all fits together.

Andy Lord: 00:23:11

So, we're responsible for that.

Andy Lord: 00:23:12

and it's an important part of how, what we call deliver the last mile, journey.

Andy Lord: 00:23:17

So people come into town on the train.

Andy Lord: 00:23:19

They either get the bus, they walk, they cycle, or they, they scoot.

Andy Lord: 00:23:24

and we want to give people that flexibility.

Andy Lord: 00:23:25

So, because we have a target of trying to get 80 percent of people in London using

Andy Lord: 00:23:31

public transport, walking or cycling.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:33

That's good.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:34

coming near the end of our interview now, but on today, the day that we're

Paul Comfort: 00:23:37

talking, May Day, May 1st, my new book, The New Future of Public Transportation

Paul Comfort: 00:23:41

is officially launched, and in the book, I've got a chapter from Simon

Paul Comfort: 00:23:44

Reid, who worked with you guys for a long time there, doing data, etc.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:48

Now he's a consultant, I guess, but it made me think about the

Paul Comfort: 00:23:52

technologies that are coming.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:53

This book is largely about what's coming for us, you know, whether it's

Paul Comfort: 00:23:56

cyber security, which is so important for transit agencies now, to AI.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:01

whatever.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:01

So, I want your thoughts, if you could, Andy.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:03

You're heading up the biggest transit system in the world.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:06

What do you see coming for us, and how is TfL preparing for

Paul Comfort: 00:24:09

it when it comes to technology?

Andy Lord: 00:24:11

well, congratulations on the book, by the way.

Andy Lord: 00:24:12

Thank you.

Andy Lord: 00:24:13

so I'll send you a copy.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:15

Thank you.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:15

Yeah.

Andy Lord: 00:24:16

we have an abundance of data and technology.

Andy Lord: 00:24:19

We use it a huge amount for travel demand management.

Andy Lord: 00:24:23

for helping predict and plan, for the future of the city,

Andy Lord: 00:24:27

for, for future services.

Andy Lord: 00:24:29

We're also, we have our own app called TfL Go, which we're looking to

Andy Lord: 00:24:32

develop further so we can give people real time, information through that.

Andy Lord: 00:24:36

we're looking, that will go live later this year with payment options as well.

Andy Lord: 00:24:41

we're looking to see what more we can do.

Andy Lord: 00:24:42

We, we, as you know, created the first, contactless payment system.

Andy Lord: 00:24:46

Oyster, we then actually created the contactless payment system that we

Andy Lord: 00:24:50

all love and use now across the world.

Andy Lord: 00:24:52

so we're thinking about what more can we do.

Andy Lord: 00:24:54

What's the next sort of generation of ticketing?

Andy Lord: 00:24:58

What's the next generation of, enabling people access onto the network?

Andy Lord: 00:25:02

How do we work with the likes of Google, Microsoft, Amazon,

Andy Lord: 00:25:06

whoever, into data of the future?

Andy Lord: 00:25:10

and as technology, develops, so we give people the opportunity to, to move

Andy Lord: 00:25:14

more freely, but ensuring we capture the revenue that we need, and then

Andy Lord: 00:25:18

use that to the best of our ability.

Andy Lord: 00:25:20

We're doing a huge amount of technology, obviously, on, future,

Andy Lord: 00:25:23

vehicles, be it buses, be it trains.

Andy Lord: 00:25:26

we're not doing so much on autonomous vehicles at the moment, but I

Andy Lord: 00:25:29

think clearly some cities are, and I think we need to look at that.

Andy Lord: 00:25:33

we do a lot around, how we use it for traffic signaling, we use some

Andy Lord: 00:25:37

really smart technology, some of which is come from the ballistic missile,

Andy Lord: 00:25:42

systems the military use to how we predict when traffic is flowing and

Andy Lord: 00:25:46

not flowing so that we can speed up the traffic, flows across the city.

Andy Lord: 00:25:50

So, and then AI.

Andy Lord: 00:25:52

I mean, who knows?

Andy Lord: 00:25:55

I wouldn't even try and pretend I understand it.

Andy Lord: 00:25:59

If anything, I'm probably a little scared of it.

Andy Lord: 00:26:03

But I have no doubt that AI is going to play a significant role for the

Andy Lord: 00:26:07

future, whether or not it's during my tenure or one of my successors tenures.

Andy Lord: 00:26:12

But, yeah, I think we need to embrace it, but we need to do it in

Andy Lord: 00:26:15

a way that is controlled and with appropriate governance and regulation.

Andy Lord: 00:26:19

For

Paul Comfort: 00:26:20

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:21

You know, I did an interview this week, for a thing called, Transit Talent.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:24

It's an e newsletter, and one of the questions was, what's

Paul Comfort: 00:26:27

your favorite or what's the best transit system in the world?

Paul Comfort: 00:26:30

And I talked some about some of the cities I've visited.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:32

I think I've been to 80 cities around the world doing this podcast and our TV

Paul Comfort: 00:26:36

show and visited their transit agencies, but I said, you know, the number one

Paul Comfort: 00:26:40

agency in the world has to be TfL.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:42

I mean, it's got it all, and it's well run, and it's woven into the fabric of

Paul Comfort: 00:26:47

the city so that it's seen, you know, not as just something for some people to

Paul Comfort: 00:26:51

ride, but it's something for everyone.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:53

So, from my perspective, Andy, you know, you, you've done it,

Paul Comfort: 00:26:56

and your predecessors, you, you've reached the pinnacle.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:59

Not only are you the biggest, but in my opinion, you're the best.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:02

so congratulations and bravo on that.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:03

And I just, any last thoughts you have for our audience of people around the world

Paul Comfort: 00:27:07

and the hundred countries that listen to the podcast, anything you'd like to share?

Andy Lord: 00:27:11

Well, thank you for your kind words, Paul.

Andy Lord: 00:27:12

I mean, I'm incredibly proud of what we do, but we're not complacent.

Andy Lord: 00:27:17

think there's a lot more we can do.

Andy Lord: 00:27:18

Our system is not as accessible as we would like it to be for

Andy Lord: 00:27:22

people who have disabilities, so there's a big focus for us on that.

Andy Lord: 00:27:27

I've moved away from us saying we're the best and the greatest.

Andy Lord: 00:27:30

We're very proud of what we

Paul Comfort: 00:27:32

do.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:32

That's

Andy Lord: 00:27:32

great, but I think we've had a bit of a reputation in the

Andy Lord: 00:27:36

past of saying we are the best.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:38

Okay.

Andy Lord: 00:27:39

Actually, I want us still to learn.

Andy Lord: 00:27:41

There are many other organizations out there, some of whom are clearly much

Andy Lord: 00:27:46

better financially backed in terms of the investment they're making, but we

Andy Lord: 00:27:50

need to make sure we learn from other cities and other transport networks

Andy Lord: 00:27:53

to see how can we take the best.

Andy Lord: 00:27:56

About those other organizations, how can we learn from their use of

Andy Lord: 00:28:00

technology so that we can really make sure we're maximizing investing in the

Andy Lord: 00:28:03

right things for the future of London.

Andy Lord: 00:28:06

We are doing whatever we can now to make our system even more integrated,

Andy Lord: 00:28:11

so that it becomes more seamless for, for customers going forward.

Andy Lord: 00:28:15

and, I just, you know, for all your listeners, who have used the system

Andy Lord: 00:28:19

and do use the system, Thank you.

Andy Lord: 00:28:21

We're very grateful.

Andy Lord: 00:28:22

please come and visit if you haven't, and, you know, please do,

Andy Lord: 00:28:25

come and see us in London where we are really proud of what we do.

Andy Lord: 00:28:29

and, so you can see everything here from the amazing new Elizabeth Line to, almost

Andy Lord: 00:28:34

our heritage line on the Bakerloo line to, The driverless DLR through to cycle

Andy Lord: 00:28:38

schemes, road networks, you name it.

Andy Lord: 00:28:41

we're really proud of it.

Andy Lord: 00:28:42

So thank you.

Paul Comfort: 00:28:43

yeah, congratulations.

Paul Comfort: 00:28:44

And I think that's a great attitude, you know, humble, still wanting to learn.

Paul Comfort: 00:28:47

That's the way you'll grow, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:28:48

I mean, the only constant is change and so TfL I know, will continue to

Paul Comfort: 00:28:53

adapt and grow under your leadership.

Paul Comfort: 00:28:55

We wish you the very best there and thank you so much, Andy, not only for what

Paul Comfort: 00:28:58

you do for the industry, but for sharing it with us today on Transit Unplugged.

Andy Lord: 00:29:02

My pleasure, Paul.

Tris Hussey: 00:29:08

This is Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:29:11

Thank you for listening to this episode of transit unplugged with our guest Andy Lord

Tris Hussey: 00:29:16

Commissioner for Transport for London.

Tris Hussey: 00:29:18

Coming up next week on the show, we have a special transit leaders panel

Tris Hussey: 00:29:21

recorded live at TripSpark ignite.

Tris Hussey: 00:29:24

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