Detroit Transit: Robert Cramer on the People Mover, Fare-Free Service, and Urban Mobility

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What do you think of Detroit?

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When you think of Detroit, what do you think of Motor City, Motown,

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but do you ever think about their public transportation today?

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After this interview, you will.

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I'm Paul Comfort and this is Transit Unplugged, the number one podcast

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for mass transit around the world.

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On today's episode, I interview Robert Kramer.

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He is executive director of the Detroit Department of Transportation.

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And he's chairman of the board and acting CEO of the people mover

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elevated rail system around the city.

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I went to Detroit a month or two ago and I mean, I had a fantastic time.

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I didn't know hardly anything about Detroit.

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I've only been to the airport.

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I didn't know it was right across the river from Canada.

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And you actually looked south to see Canada, uh, in Detroit and.

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I didn't know about their fantastic three layer transit operations there

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with the RTA and SMART with my buddy Dwight, and then here the De Detroit

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Department of Transportation and the People Mover elevated three mile

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loop around the city, which is free.

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I. We went there, we filmed an episode of Transit Unplugged tv,

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which is fascinating, and it's on the air this week on , YouTube.

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You're gonna need to, after you listen to this podcast, you're gonna want

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to go right there and see everything you've heard Robert talk about.

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He's become a good pal of mine now.

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We hung around and he showed me all kinds of amazing things in the city.

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I was very impressed.

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You know, uh, the downtown area is under re big time renovation.

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The transit service serves it well and is getting even better

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under the helm of Robert Kramer.

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Listen to this podcast and come away amazed at the resurgence

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of the city of Detroit.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:44

Alright.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:44

I'm in Detroit Motor City.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:46

I'm with Robert Kramer, who is CEO of a lot of trans.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:49

Here in the city and we're sitting on the people mover.

Robert Cramer: 00:01:51

Yep.

Robert Cramer: 00:01:52

Uh, we are, we are here, uh, people mover elevated three

Robert Cramer: 00:01:55

mile, uh, downtown circulator.

Robert Cramer: 00:01:57

Uh, we're almost 38 years old.

Robert Cramer: 00:01:59

And, um, it's really kind of the center of the hub, the hub and

Robert Cramer: 00:02:03

spoke system for the entire region.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:05

And also connects with, uh, DDOT and Smart, which are the, , city

Robert Cramer: 00:02:08

and suburban bus providers.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:09

The streetcar goes right through the, uh, the edge of our, uh, alignment

Robert Cramer: 00:02:13

here and, uh, with direct, uh, hotels, convention centers, parks, but also.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:18

A growing number of, uh, residential buildings and uses downtown, , people

Robert Cramer: 00:02:21

who are really through all of those changes continues to be

Robert Cramer: 00:02:25

a great asset to get go around.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:27

And it's free.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:28

It is free.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:28

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:28

, Last year we had our first year of, uh, fair free and, uh, we saw 80% increase

Robert Cramer: 00:02:35

in ridership from the year before, which was our first full year open after COVID.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:39

But really what we saw, we have a original, fair, fair equipment

Robert Cramer: 00:02:42

system and, , not only the cost, but the fact that you could.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:46

Transfer from other modes and you also couldn't use any, uh, mobile

Robert Cramer: 00:02:50

payment or anything electronic was a barrier for everyone.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:53

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:54

In all different ways.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:55

And so we had an opportunity to test it out.

Robert Cramer: 00:02:57

We actually got, uh, created a new sponsorship program, signed up a

Robert Cramer: 00:03:01

sponsor for the whole year, and basically that made sure that at least

Robert Cramer: 00:03:04

our first year was budget neutral and allowed U.S. to kind of test it out.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:07

And like I said, the results were fantastic.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:09

Who was the sponsor, , priority waste.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:11

They're, they've signed up to continue for this year as well.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:14

Um, but they, you know, they, they signed up for U.S. to

Robert Cramer: 00:03:17

have, um, to try out the system.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:19

They believed in, uh, kinda where we were headed as a, as a

Robert Cramer: 00:03:22

transportation mobility option.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:24

And, uh, we're really, we're grateful for that.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:26

So you'll see their yellow branding actually right outside the window here.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:28

There's the, there's a badge we have on each station.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:30

Oh, yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:31

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:31

And that allowed U.S. to try it out.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:33

And like I said, the results were, were great.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:35

And really, um, even just from a business case perspective,

Robert Cramer: 00:03:38

if we were ever gonna start.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:39

Are collecting fears.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:39

Again, our estimate is we need to invest about $5 million to

Robert Cramer: 00:03:43

replace the fair collection system, which is like five year return on

Robert Cramer: 00:03:47

investment just to Yes, like the dog.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:48

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:48

So it's a pretty easy, uh, a pretty easy case.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:51

And like I said, it's been great as far as really helping U.S. expand the influence

Robert Cramer: 00:03:55

and benefits we have for the city.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:57

And it's all elevated.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:58

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:03:58

Everything is, is up in the air.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:00

Uh, provides opportunity for a lot of, uh, transit related puns.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:03

You know, we're, we're above everyone else, all that sort of thing.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:06

But it really is, um, we, we, we did a, . Customers, , satisfaction

Robert Cramer: 00:04:09

survey this past summer, you know, onboard in person engagements, and

Robert Cramer: 00:04:13

we found, , quite a few riders that were riding with no destination.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:18

So if you think about it, it's, it's just, it's three miles.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:20

15 minutes gets you one trip around.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:22

I've been on board with people from out of town that will ride around once looking

Robert Cramer: 00:04:25

out one side, and then they get up and they move to the other side and look

Robert Cramer: 00:04:28

out the other window and ride it around.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:29

It's a great way to see basically all of the downtown, , you're, you're along

Robert Cramer: 00:04:33

the river looking down, uh, to our part, uh, our, uh, neighbors to the south.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:37

Canada, you're visiting all of the districts around the downtown

Robert Cramer: 00:04:41

area for free, and you can kind of scout out lay of the land.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:45

You know, it's like a roundabout, right?

Robert Cramer: 00:04:46

The worst you can do is have to ride around until you get to your stop.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:49

And it's just something that, you know, uh, it is, can be

Robert Cramer: 00:04:53

beneficial in so many ways.

Robert Cramer: 00:04:54

It's really a great economic development tool, but also really

Robert Cramer: 00:04:57

does, , serve to connect, , transit and mobility options for everybody.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:01

Last night we were here, you showed U.S.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:03

around downtown.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:04

Talk to U.S. some about how the down.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:06

Town is so unique.

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, The sport teams are all close by.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:09

You've got, uh, it's just,

Paul Comfort: 00:05:11

it's pretty cool the way it's laid out.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:13

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:13

Downtown Detroit, is really a very unique, interesting place.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:16

Of course, founded in 1701, so there's a long history here is a

Robert Cramer: 00:05:19

French, uh, fur trading post actually.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:22

But just right where they landed on the Detroit River is, is in Heart

Robert Cramer: 00:05:24

Plaza, which we were yesterday.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:25

Yeah, there's a marker there.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:26

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:27

We went and saw it.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:27

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:28

And, and just, you know, up from there, you, you've got, uh, campus

Robert Cramer: 00:05:30

Marsh is kind of the center of town From there, all of the, the paths.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:34

Radiate out, uh, used to be, uh, trading trails turned into, uh, major spokes that

Robert Cramer: 00:05:41

go out to not only all, all corners of the city, but also to all of the suburbs

Robert Cramer: 00:05:44

that kind of surround the, the metro area.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:47

So downtown, uh, a pretty compact area has a similar layout to Washington, DC

Robert Cramer: 00:05:52

where you have, you have hubs and spokes.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:54

All the streets are diagonal.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:56

There's nothing that's north, south, east, west.

Robert Cramer: 00:05:58

And that was part of the, the judge, uh, Augustus Woodward

Robert Cramer: 00:06:01

plan after the fire of 1805.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:03

Then only stick around for a little bit, so we need.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:04

Get to Grand Circus Park.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:06

That's as far as it goes.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:07

From there, it turns into more of a traditional, , grid pattern.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:10

, But just downtown there's, there's tons of great views because you

Robert Cramer: 00:06:13

have all of the streets at different angles and then everything oriented

Robert Cramer: 00:06:16

toward the river on, on Woodward too,

Paul Comfort: 00:06:19

and,

Paul Comfort: 00:06:19

uh, you're right next to Canada.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:21

Talk about that.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:22

I mean, I can see Canada from my hotel room.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:25

I've got history even in my family of people immigrating

Robert Cramer: 00:06:28

from, from Europe through Canada.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:29

There's, there's people who have, , families that are supposed

Robert Cramer: 00:06:31

to split on both sides of the border.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:33

There's quite a few people, especially, um, especially

Robert Cramer: 00:06:36

in healthcare and automotive.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:37

There's a lot of people who live in Canada or residents there and actually commute,

Robert Cramer: 00:06:41

, to the U.S. every day for, for their jobs.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:43

And

Paul Comfort: 00:06:43

you've got a tunnel and a bridge.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:45

Yeah, we have a, a tunnel, uh, which was built first, but

Robert Cramer: 00:06:49

both, both over a hundred years ago.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:51

, The Bridge Ambassador Bridge is built in the twenties and, uh, we're

Robert Cramer: 00:06:55

closing in on opening the Gordy How Bridge, which is a brand new bridge.

Robert Cramer: 00:06:58

It's a little bit farther down , the river.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:01

But, , Detroit is by some measure the busiest, , international

Robert Cramer: 00:07:05

crossing, certainly with Canada.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:06

, I was actually talking to someone yesterday that the.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:09

Estimate they have is on the Ambassador Bridge.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:11

They have somewhere between 11 to 13,000 trucks every day that cross the bridge.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:15

A lot of those parts, of course, it's kind of a sensitive topic these days because

Robert Cramer: 00:07:19

that's those parts that are actually moving back and forth, be across the

Robert Cramer: 00:07:23

border as they go through the different stages of manufacturing and engineering,

Robert Cramer: 00:07:27

but a very busy and important crossing.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:30

But there's also a lot of shared history and culture between the two sides as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:34

And you've got the four major sports teams

Paul Comfort: 00:07:36

all within a stone's throw,

Paul Comfort: 00:07:37

right?

Robert Cramer: 00:07:37

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:39

Yeah, the only major city that's got the, we have the, the Red Wings,

Robert Cramer: 00:07:42

which are NHL, the pistons are NBA Lions, NFL, tigers, MLB, all those

Robert Cramer: 00:07:49

are within three facilities that are within a half a mile of each other.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:52

That's amazing, man.

Robert Cramer: 00:07:53

Yeah, so if you think about, you know, it's, it's uh, from

Robert Cramer: 00:07:55

a traffic and mobility, , management perspective, there's a lot of effort

Robert Cramer: 00:07:59

and really it is a unique day when there isn't something going on downtown between

Robert Cramer: 00:08:03

those venues and the convention center.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:06

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:06

We're going back right now, the, uh, Hudson.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:08

Site.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:08

So this is the , former, , largest or second largest department store in

Robert Cramer: 00:08:12

the world, has been redeveloped and is close to opening, , a tower that will

Robert Cramer: 00:08:16

be the second tallest in Michigan.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:17

And then a platform building with event space that's gonna be the

Robert Cramer: 00:08:20

new headquarters of General Motors.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:22

This is something developed by, uh, uh, Dan Gilbert, bedrock Properties

Robert Cramer: 00:08:26

part, the Quicken Loans family.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:28

, Really an incredible asset of the city and right next to our Cadillac

Robert Cramer: 00:08:31

Center people mover station.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:32

So there's work going on right now about how we could improve.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:36

, The station and the, the sidewalk and the area around it to make sure we

Robert Cramer: 00:08:41

have like a really, , well designed experience to connect that station,

Robert Cramer: 00:08:46

potentially enhance it into a mobility hub with, uh, smart curb space

Robert Cramer: 00:08:49

and autonomous vehicles and stuff.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:52

But it's right in the shadow of this new building and a great

Robert Cramer: 00:08:54

opportunity for the people who were to kind of grow into the future.

Robert Cramer: 00:08:57

. Paul Comfort: And you were mentioning that this system got started in 87.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:00

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:01

So have you had rehabs done?

Robert Cramer: 00:09:04

Well?

Robert Cramer: 00:09:04

We've got a, a really aggressive program as far as the inspecting

Robert Cramer: 00:09:08

and maintaining the guideway.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:10

So it's all concrete, super structure.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:12

, Inch by inch, the whole system.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:13

It's in great shape.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:15

The cars are original.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:16

We've actually, uh, we haven't done any major overhauls, but we're actually

Robert Cramer: 00:09:19

have purchased Toronto Scarborough Line in Toronto, which just closed,

Robert Cramer: 00:09:23

was a Canadian sister system to U.S.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:26

built basically same factory, same timeframe.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:29

They made a decision to close their system.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:31

They, they needed more track investment that.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:33

We had taken care of, but they had invested more in their cars.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:36

We've actually purchased their cars that have had a midlife overhaul.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:38

We're making some adjustments to those.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:40

And, uh, we're aiming the next 12 to 15 months we're actually gonna

Robert Cramer: 00:09:45

replace our fleet with their cars.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:48

So Robert, we just switched now from your people mover to the bus.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:52

At which station were we at?

Robert Cramer: 00:09:53

Uh, we were at the Rosa Parks Transit Center, which is

Robert Cramer: 00:09:55

our, uh, main, , bus transfer center.

Robert Cramer: 00:09:58

It's, , right adjacent to two people mover stops, uh, downtown.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:02

So it provides a lot of, uh, opportunities for connections and, uh, it is our,

Robert Cramer: 00:10:06

it's our largest, uh, transit facility.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:08

. Paul Comfort: So Detroit is, um, a little.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:10

Complex in how I would say the structure of public transportation

Robert Cramer: 00:10:14

agents use their design.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:15

Walk me through how it works here.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:17

Sure.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:17

So, , RTA, which is the Regional Transit Authority, they're a state

Robert Cramer: 00:10:20

enabled, , authority, and they are the ones that handle, uh, the state and

Robert Cramer: 00:10:25

federal funding that comes to the region.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:28

Uh, they do long, long term planning.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:30

Uh, they, worked on some initiatives, and also recently they took over operation

Robert Cramer: 00:10:34

of the Q line, which is the street car.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:36

. Then you have, uh, operators.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:39

Ann Arbor is actually part of the RTA, even though it's a separate UCA, so

Robert Cramer: 00:10:42

Ann Arbor's an operator, but then in the, in the Detroit region, you've

Robert Cramer: 00:10:46

got, uh, smart, which is the suburban bus agency, also a direct recipient.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:52

You've got ddot, which is the, is a city department, , fixed route and paratransit.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:57

And that's where you're director?

Robert Cramer: 00:10:59

Correct.

Robert Cramer: 00:10:59

That's I'm director of, uh, of ddot.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:01

And then, uh, you have, uh, people mover, which is owned

Robert Cramer: 00:11:04

and operated by a, a public.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:06

Corporation essentially.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:07

That's I'm the CEO of.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:11

So it's really, um, and each one of those agencies has different funding.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:14

So DI and the People mover get, uh, city General Fund dollars

Robert Cramer: 00:11:18

that support it as a subsidy.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:19

Uh, SMART has a smart, actually has a, uh, a, uh, property tax

Robert Cramer: 00:11:25

millage that funds their operations.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:27

, And then, you know, the, the Q line and all the agencies get

Robert Cramer: 00:11:29

a, a good, good amount of, uh, state and federal support as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:34

And then because.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:35

As you're so close to Canada, it's right on the river here.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:38

You told me you have a bus service coming over here from Canada.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:41

Yeah, transit.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:41

Windsor currently runs, uh, the tunnel bus, which is, goes

Robert Cramer: 00:11:45

through the tunnel of course.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:46

, And is, uh, a commute option really.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:49

There's a, like I mentioned before, there's a number of people

Robert Cramer: 00:11:51

who live in Canada, uh, that work over here in the States.

Robert Cramer: 00:11:55

Um, and then they also run some extra special event service because, you

Robert Cramer: 00:11:58

know, there's a decent number of uh, uh, you know, Detroit sports fans

Robert Cramer: 00:12:01

that are across the border as well.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:03

. Paul Comfort: And all those, uh.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:04

Sports teams.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:05

You mentioned earlier, the four major leagues, you've got good

Robert Cramer: 00:12:09

access to them by transit, right?

Robert Cramer: 00:12:11

Yeah, absolutely.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:12

So, um, smart and DDOT both have, , quality service on Woodward,

Robert Cramer: 00:12:17

which kind of runs right through the middle of all of them, Q Line.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:20

The Streetcar also has a stop that's, uh, the first, , transit only lane

Robert Cramer: 00:12:24

in the state, uh, is there to help get through some of that congestion.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:28

And then the people mover has a stop that's, uh, about two or three

Robert Cramer: 00:12:32

blocks from all of them as well.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:33

In Grand Circus Park and Broadway are both kind of nearby, so tons of options,

Robert Cramer: 00:12:38

whether you're commuting in on transit, we exit through the rear door, or

Robert Cramer: 00:12:41

whether you're, driving down in parking and then looking to circulate around.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:45

, There's a lot of options to, uh, to get around the downtown.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:49

Oh, there's also Mogo, I forgot to mention.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:50

Oh yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:51

So Mogo was a, a non-profit that was started, , a number of years

Robert Cramer: 00:12:54

ago that has stations all around the downtown and Midtown, which

Robert Cramer: 00:12:57

is kind of farther up Woodward.

Robert Cramer: 00:12:59

Um, and it's a great option.

Robert Cramer: 00:13:00

It's the, the, uh.

Robert Cramer: 00:13:02

Uh, fixed stations, so you've gotta ride and, and park the bike

Robert Cramer: 00:13:04

at a station when you go around.

Robert Cramer: 00:13:06

, But really has been, uh, an incredible asset and it's something that's also

Robert Cramer: 00:13:10

linked in with all those other options to get people around the downtown.

Robert Cramer: 00:13:13

And recently it started expanding north, um, into some of the

Robert Cramer: 00:13:16

entering suburbs as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:18

That's

Robert Cramer: 00:13:18

great.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:19

We'll be right back and Robert I'm gonna ask you to

Paul Comfort: 00:13:22

talk about your, personal career when we come back this work.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:26

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Now let's get back to the conversation.

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And now we're back with Robert Kramer, who is, uh, tell U.S. your full title.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:35

, Robert Cramer: So I'm the Executive Director of Transit

Paul Comfort: 00:14:37

for the City of Detroit, and that includes the role of director of

Paul Comfort: 00:14:41

ddot, which is City Department.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:42

And I'm the CEO of Detroit Transportation Corporation, which is

Paul Comfort: 00:14:46

the public, uh, public corporation that owns and operates the people.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:49

. Paul Comfort: And how did you get, tell U.S. about your background.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:52

So how'd you get to this job and how long have you been here?

Paul Comfort: 00:14:54

, Robert Cramer: So this in my.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:56

Current expanded role.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:57

This is my, uh, what month is it?

Paul Comfort: 00:14:59

April?

Paul Comfort: 00:14:59

This is my fourth month.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:00

Okay.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:00

I started right after the first of the year.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:02

, before that I was at just the people mover, uh, as general manager

Paul Comfort: 00:15:06

for about two and a half years.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:08

And prior to that, I worked at, uh, smart, which is the suburban

Paul Comfort: 00:15:12

provider for over 10 years.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:13

There I was, , acting gm Deputy General Manager and actually started

Paul Comfort: 00:15:17

there in the grants department.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:18

, Prior to that, , my education and, uh.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:21

First career was in, uh, community and transportation planning.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:25

So graduated from Michigan State University and worked for a small

Paul Comfort: 00:15:29

consulting firm for about seven years.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:30

And we did a combination there of, uh, community of zoning and, and site

Paul Comfort: 00:15:34

plans and stuff all the way up to, and especially working with, , the

Paul Comfort: 00:15:38

state and county agencies on, , access management transit corridor

Paul Comfort: 00:15:42

planning, , and, uh, you know, traffic improvement, uh, sort of activities.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:47

, And then that, saw an opportunity.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:49

To get smart, , in grants was kind of a little bit different track, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:15:53

but uh, allowed me to kind of take, take all the stuff I learned and

Paul Comfort: 00:15:56

build on it in the public sector.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:58

And, uh, then that's led one thing led to another, to this great opportunity.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:03

And, and, uh, how has Mike l Oglesby involved in all

Paul Comfort: 00:16:06

this, our buddy from now in Tucson?

Robert Cramer: 00:16:08

Well, so, um, when Mikel came up to, uh, ddot, it was right

Robert Cramer: 00:16:14

around the time of the pandemic, which is obviously, just a, a crazy time.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:18

For everyone, but especially for transit.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:21

So he joined, , DDOT around that time and, um, that time more than ever.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:27

It was just super important to have that coordination and partnership between

Robert Cramer: 00:16:30

transit agencies, not just to support the riders and the drivers in particular,

Robert Cramer: 00:16:35

who were really, um, put in a, um, just a incredible situation to be out on the

Robert Cramer: 00:16:41

road as really, uh, frontline, , staff, but also to support each other as we.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:47

To work through the different challenges.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:49

So I, I remember, uh, it was kind of a fascinating, uh, there's always

Robert Cramer: 00:16:53

been different factions and, and agencies and I think that was really

Robert Cramer: 00:16:57

opportunity to pull all of U.S. together.

Robert Cramer: 00:16:59

We actually had for, for quite a while, probably a couple

Robert Cramer: 00:17:01

months, there was a nightly call.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:03

, The city, it was a ddot Smart, the Streetcar.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:07

Uh, we had the state, we had a couple of the other, um, major agencies and

Robert Cramer: 00:17:12

all of U.S. would get on the call.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:13

It was either eight or nine at night and basically like, okay.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:16

How did we survive that day?

Robert Cramer: 00:17:17

What can we do to support each other?

Robert Cramer: 00:17:19

How did you get the, uh, the touchless, uh, temperature check kiosks?

Robert Cramer: 00:17:24

Remember, we, we, we found some of those and then kind

Robert Cramer: 00:17:26

of helped everyone order them.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:27

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:28

Or, uh, you know, how did you deal with the COVID policy?

Robert Cramer: 00:17:30

How did you deal with the, uh, uh, sick workforce or, uh, check and

Robert Cramer: 00:17:36

driver issues, whatever it might be, uh, passenger boarding policies.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:40

So that was really, uh, Mikel came on in the middle of that and, and he and I.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:46

Um, kind of hit it off to really coordinating and supporting

Robert Cramer: 00:17:49

each other in the two systems.

Robert Cramer: 00:17:51

And, um, from there, uh, there was an opportunity that came up, uh,

Robert Cramer: 00:17:55

when he was in this role that I'm in now at ddot, uh, where he, he, he

Robert Cramer: 00:18:00

kind of, uh, talked to me about an opport achievement, the people mover.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:03

And, um, Jefferson, it sounded like a great challenge and something that

Robert Cramer: 00:18:08

would be, uh, exciting and interesting.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:09

It could make a big impact.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:11

So I, um, you know, made that move and, , really it's been an incredible experience.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:15

Stuff.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:16

. Paul Comfort: How about your personal life?

Robert Cramer: 00:18:17

Any, uh, any, uh, update on that where you're at?

Robert Cramer: 00:18:20

Married kids, dogs, music.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:24

. Robert Cramer: Uh, yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:24

I'm, , married, , have, uh, four children.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:28

, One dog, , currently was two dogs until recently, but, um, yeah, one dog.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:34

Uh, what kind of dog?

Robert Cramer: 00:18:35

, We do rescue dogs.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:36

Okay.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:36

So she's, uh, we did the old send the swab over and she's, uh.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:40

An eighth of eight different things.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:42

Okay.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:42

Yeah, that very helpful.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:43

Yes.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:44

A mud, she, she looks, yeah, a mud for sure.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:46

Um, kind of has a great Pyrenees kind of coat and look to her, but she's, she's

Robert Cramer: 00:18:49

only about 65 or 70 pounds, so it's kind of, but anyway, uh, that, that's my

Robert Cramer: 00:18:54

actually, uh, as my, my nightly release.

Robert Cramer: 00:18:57

, I take the, take the dog on a long walk, , around, , around where I live.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:00

And, , that's a good, good release.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:02

And of course, uh, she likes it as well.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:03

So, um, yeah, that's, uh, my, uh, youngest, child.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:07

My son is, uh, in college.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:10

And, um,

Paul Comfort: 00:19:12

everyone, everything's good.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:13

Can't complain.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:13

That's good.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:14

And if you don't mind me asking or saying, you look great, you've

Paul Comfort: 00:19:16

lost a lot of weight recently.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:17

You're my new hero.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:19

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:19

Well, yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:20

There's, there's, uh, you know, something to be said for, a low carb lifestyle.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:23

Let's put it that, I know we've, we've talked about that a little bit, but, uh,

Robert Cramer: 00:19:27

yeah, it's, it's, it's really important, you know, um, even going to the CEO's

Robert Cramer: 00:19:32

conference, uh, it is important to, to.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:35

Realize that there's a lot, a lot riding on how successful that we can

Robert Cramer: 00:19:39

be as leaders, but also to make sure that we can support each other as well.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:42

I think, you know, taking care of our ourselves, you know, mental and physical

Robert Cramer: 00:19:46

wellbeing is, is really important.

Robert Cramer: 00:19:47

It is,

Paul Comfort: 00:19:48

yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:48

I just think I mentioned to you like, just about less than a year ago, I,

Paul Comfort: 00:19:52

I really decided I have to focus on my personal life and not kind of just

Paul Comfort: 00:19:57

react and respond to it, but be the author of my, what my personal life

Paul Comfort: 00:20:01

is gonna be, you know, and so like you now I'm, I'm doing a walk every day.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:05

Know every morning, usually for the last nine months, unless it's

Paul Comfort: 00:20:09

pouring down rain, uh, and trying to eat better too with low carbs.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:12

I've lost 20 and got another 50 to go.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:15

But, uh, you're right.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:16

I, I wanted to comment on it because a lot of guys and gals that are

Paul Comfort: 00:20:19

in this role that I've been in, and you are in currently a CEO,

Paul Comfort: 00:20:23

it takes a toll on you physically.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:25

You don't get to eat, right.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:26

I mean, I used to, you know, I was working 12 hour days basically, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:20:29

Leave the house at seven in the morning, get home at seven at night combo.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:32

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:33

And um, you know, sometimes you just eat whatever.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:35

Fast food you have to get and all that stuff.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:38

Yeah,

Robert Cramer: 00:20:38

yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:20:38

Absolutely.

Robert Cramer: 00:20:39

It, it's, um, but I think what makes it, as I'm sure you experienced too, uh, as

Robert Cramer: 00:20:44

a, as a public service, uh, and knowing that there's not only so many people at

Robert Cramer: 00:20:50

the organization that you're at that are counting on you to support them and help

Robert Cramer: 00:20:54

them and, and help them have the tools they need to do their job every day.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:00

But it's even more important because their ability to do their job impacts literally

Robert Cramer: 00:21:03

tens of thousands of people every day.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:05

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:05

So.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:05

It's, uh, you do have to be careful that you're, you know,

Robert Cramer: 00:21:08

uh, taking care of yourself.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:10

, But I think, you know, transit as an industry, , it's easy to get up

Robert Cramer: 00:21:14

and come to work every day, even on the tough days because you know that

Robert Cramer: 00:21:17

kind of impact you have on people.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:19

Isn't that wonderful?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:20

I love that about what we do.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:21

We pretty cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:22

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:22

We're, we are helping and I love, you know, I'm all about paratransit.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:25

Personally.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:26

I've spent a lot of my career in that.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:27

Helping people that don't have other options is big.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:31

Yeah.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:31

I think, , like you said, whether it's paratransit, but.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:34

But even just connecting people to healthcare, to employment, to give

Robert Cramer: 00:21:38

them the freedom and, and support that they need to be able to have a

Robert Cramer: 00:21:41

high quality of life without having to, to figure out a way to afford it.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:45

This incredible cost of owning and operating a car.

Robert Cramer: 00:21:48

Um, if, if they're able to do that, um, it's just so important to the, the

Robert Cramer: 00:21:52

quality of life in our communities.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:54

Yeah, and I guess that'd be my last question.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:56

, And that is, so we're in Motor City here, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:58

This is the birthplace of the American automobile industry really.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:01

And yet you've got a strong transit system.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:04

Yeah, we've, we've got a lot of, , we've got a lot of support.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:09

I think we've got a long way to go.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:11

, And, and any transit system hopefully would say that they could

Robert Cramer: 00:22:14

always do, do more and improve.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:16

, But starting with the coordination, you know, we mentioned all these

Robert Cramer: 00:22:19

different agencies, sometimes that feels like it's counterproductive.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:23

But I think that Jefferson, the important thing is to coordinate those services

Robert Cramer: 00:22:27

and think about the customer experience.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:29

That's something that really, for me.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:30

Personally, the People mover.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:33

The People mover kind of forced me to think about that more than I had at smart.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:38

Really focusing on what are the things, the little things and big

Robert Cramer: 00:22:41

things you can do to make the customer experience the best it can be.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:45

And when you do that, then you build the quality of the service.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:48

It's more convenient, it's attractive, which then makes it better.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:52

And it just, all that builds on itself.

Robert Cramer: 00:22:54

But, but that's really starting with what are the things we can do

Robert Cramer: 00:22:57

from a customer service standpoint.

Robert Cramer: 00:23:00

Thinking about it that way, almost, almost in the hospitality

Robert Cramer: 00:23:03

realm, what are the things we can do to really make this an asset?

Robert Cramer: 00:23:06

We're never gonna be able to almost welcome board, almost gonna be

Robert Cramer: 00:23:09

able to drive faster than someone in their own personal automobile

Robert Cramer: 00:23:12

going directly from space to space.

Robert Cramer: 00:23:15

That doesn't mean that we can't, , you know, make the, the experience and

Robert Cramer: 00:23:19

the service and the affordability and the connectivity can still

Robert Cramer: 00:23:23

be a great asset to people.

Robert Cramer: 00:23:25

If we really think focus on that part is making sure we

Robert Cramer: 00:23:28

think about customer experience.

Robert Cramer: 00:23:29

I. Every day.

Julie Gates: 00:23:38

Thank you for listening to this week's episode

Julie Gates: 00:23:40

of the Transit Unplugged Podcast.

Julie Gates: 00:23:42

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Julie Gates: 00:23:43

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Julie Gates: 00:23:45

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Julie Gates: 00:23:48

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Thanks for listening to Transit Unplugged with Paul Comfort, our favorite transit

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Thanks for tuning in.