NYC Stalls on Congestion Pricing: A Deep Dive with Matthew Daus

Paul Comfort: 00:00:05

Hi, I'm Paul Comfort, and this is Transit Unplugged, the world's

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leading transit executive podcast.

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Breaking news out of New York City congestion charging

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halted by the governor.

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Governor Kathy Hochul of New York announced last week the indefinite

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shelving of the congestion pricing plan just weeks before its scheduled

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implementation on June 30th.

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The plan was going to be the first of its kind in the nation, and it would

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have seen drivers paying up to $15 to enter Manhattan south of 60th Street.

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She said the decision was made to avoid creating additional hurdles

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to the city's economic recovery.

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The move has sparked mixed reactions with some lawmakers and constituents

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expressing concerns about the proposed tolling system, but the program's

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advocates, including economists and environmentalists, saw it as a solution

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to the financial challenges faced by the MTA in New York City and the

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city's traffic congestion issues.

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In light of this development, I, invited Matthew Daus the president

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of the International Association of Transportation Regulators, to join us.

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Matthew is also the former commissioner of the New York City

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Taxi and Limousine Commission.

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He is the, Transportation Technology Chair at the City University of New

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York's, uh, Transportation Research Center of the City College of New York, where

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he conducts research and continues to extensively publish as an expert on ground

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transportation regulation and technology.

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He's also a partner at Windels Marks Lane in Mittendorf, LLP, where he

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founded and chairs the Transportation Practice Group since 2010.

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A real New Yorker.

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He's the longest serving Commissioner, Chair, and CEO of the New York

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City Taxi Commission and Limousine Commission, where he served from

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2001 to 2010, with 20 years of other service in government as an attorney.

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I asked him to join me and talk to me about this development, and so he does.

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He breaks it down with his opinion on issues, which is always stimulating,

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and we also talk about the recent departure of Rich Davey, a friend of

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ours, leaving the New York City MTA to go back to Boston, to the port there.

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And also, considerations about what's happening with crime with

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New York City, and is the Governor going to keep the National Guard

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on the MTA, and should that happen?

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These are his opinions, by the way, and, should not necessarily be seen

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as the opinions of myself or Modaxo or Transit Unplugged, but very insightful

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opinions he gives and I think it's a good invigorating conversation

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on all topics, all things transit.

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What most folks may not realize is that every day in America close to 40 percent

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of the trips that are taken on public transportation are taken in one city.

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New York City.

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So if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.

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Let's join the conversation with Matthew Dowse about this halt, surprising halt

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to congestion charging in New York City.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:50

Great to have with us my good friend, Matthew Daus it's great to have

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you with us today on the podcast.

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You're one of our few two time guests.

Matthew Daus: 00:02:56

I am honored, Paul, so thanks for having me again.

Matthew Daus: 00:02:59

It's been well over a year, and it's good to see you again.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:02

You've got a lot going on, but the hot topic we want

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to talk about today is congestion charging, because there was just,

Paul Comfort: 00:03:09

I mean, this was going to start in June, and now tell us what happened.

Matthew Daus: 00:03:13

yeah, I mean, today we were supposed to talk about

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it being implemented, and, the timing is impeccable, of course.

Matthew Daus: 00:03:18

we had a big curveball that a lot of people didn't see coming.

Matthew Daus: 00:03:22

and, I think people pull there's politics involved, obviously.

Matthew Daus: 00:03:25

I mean, the first time when my former boss, Mike Bloomberg, tried

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to do it, politics killed it.

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this time, I think politics did the same thing.

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And then two years later, we're back here at the table where so much work

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was done in the lawsuits and everything was geared up and the plug was

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basically pulled indefinitely today.

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and, the stated reasons are things that a lot of people have been talking

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about on the other side of the issue, which is this is the wrong time.

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We're still recovering from the pandemic.

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People are working from home.

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We don't know if this is going to work.

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so I think a lot of people were surprised.

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It's not an easy thing to get done.

Matthew Daus: 00:03:58

I think Mayor Bloomberg and Dan Doctoroff, who was pushing this as part

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of before, as part of Plan YC many, many years ago when I was working as

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taxi commissioner, when they pushed that, it was politics that killed it.

Matthew Daus: 00:04:11

The politics, I think, were probably not as well thought out as they could

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have been at the time, and then Jeanette Sadikhan came in and we took a different

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direction with micromobility in the city and we forgot about congestion pricing

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until our, my good friend Sam Schwartz brought it back with Move New York, and

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circumstances were such at the time that, it was really, the stars were aligned,

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and the Summer of Hell happened with, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, and, that

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gave fuel to the fire with Sam's Move New York, program, and that's how we ended

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up with congestion pricing being passed, and I think, the one thing I'd pause and

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say, Paul, is that, congestion pricing could be a good thing, but there was a lot

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of opposition here, and even though they did a better job this time of, you know,

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There's a number of people that are trying to nail down the politics of the Rubik's

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cube of, getting to a monetary goal.

Matthew Daus: 00:04:59

I think we should take a step back, and this is great to hit the

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pause button right now, because, it wasn't perfect, and even though

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the political planning was better.

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And you cannot remove the politics from this.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:10

You can't get anything done in New York or most parts of the country

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without navigating the politics.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:15

I think that was the reason why the first congestion pricing experiment never

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passed is because not enough thought went into how to balance out the interests.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:23

And, it was, they did a better job, but it wasn't perfect.

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And, and, and I think the real serious flaw with the entire approach to it

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is it's not, it wasn't even openly about mitigation of congestion.

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And, and the environment anymore.

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It really wasn't.

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It was about the money.

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And that was because the legislature put a dollar figure in the law.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:44

If they're going to actually revisit the law, Paul, I would suggest that

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they don't put a dollar amount on it.

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this is supposed to bring in a billion

Paul Comfort: 00:05:53

dollars, right?

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For their capital, MTA capital.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:55

That's a, that's a flawed approach.

Matthew Daus: 00:05:57

Yeah.

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What they should do is figure how we're going to reduce, what does it take in

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terms of, the price point or, other policies to actually reduce congestion.

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And then let's see how much it is.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:09

Different angle approaching it kind of on the, on the political side.

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So just to kind of clarify to everyone, because we dove

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right in, sorry about that.

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I just threw you right into the mix.

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But, Yeah, it was a 15 congestion charge that the General Assembly had

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passed and everyone was on board.

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Our good friend Rich Davey was on our podcast last year talking about how it

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was going to be a billion dollars into their capital fund, which I always felt

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like, they oughta, were hurting enough financially on the operating side, they

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might think about it there, but that's the way the law was written, he said.

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It was going to be a $15 charge for most cars coming in starting June 30th.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:42

You got involved in a lot of your roles and helped them roll back

Paul Comfort: 00:06:45

that for taxicabs and others, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:06:47

Right.

Matthew Daus: 00:06:48

yeah, I mean, I, I was involved at a lot of different levels.

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My university put out a report on the equity impacts, just like

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you're, similar to the discussions that you've had in your book.

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and we felt that not only the drivers, of, of for hire vehicles and Ubers and

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taxis would be impacted, but also the passengers in certain neighborhoods

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would be, getting double the amount.

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to come into the city when they don't have that money, especially after the pandemic.

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And, the whole point is to get people into public transit, and people working from

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home, and no one really thought about how this could cause more people to work from

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home, and that it may have other, negative economic impacts on the city, but, a

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lot of people, including Janno Lieber thinks I'm against congestion pricing.

Matthew Daus: 00:07:27

I'm not against it.

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I'm against the, the way it's being done, right now.

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there was a lot of planning that went into this and a lot of hard work

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from a really good team over there.

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But if I had to do it differently, here's what I would do.

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Press the pause button, take a look at all these lawsuits that are pending, sit down

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with all the litigants one by one, and see how you can do mitigation and work out

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a plan like they did with Congressmember Torres with the Governor of New Jersey

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to see how we can mitigate, using the dollars and other mechanisms that are not

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necessarily just money to figure that out.

Matthew Daus: 00:07:58

Number two, let's look at things that other cities and states have done, around

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the world in the few places that have it.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:06

Yeah, like Singapore, London.

Matthew Daus: 00:08:08

Singapore and London, like, let's exempt the taxis and the

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buses and get people to use them.

Matthew Daus: 00:08:12

They finally exempted the buses, but it was a long fight and they never exempted

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the taxis, but they've been basically collecting money from the taxis and

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the Ubers for for years and years.

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And has that done anything?

Matthew Daus: 00:08:24

No, it hasn't really mitigated it.

Matthew Daus: 00:08:26

So I think what they need to do is number one, create a lockbox.

Matthew Daus: 00:08:30

And this is detailed in the reports I did with the university on equity

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impacts and also the model congestion mitigation measures that the IETR, which

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is, the best practices group for TNC and TAXI and NEMT regulators, we put

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out a report saying you can't solve this problem, Paul, by just money and you

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can't solve it by not looking at other policies outside of congestion pricing.

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You need to have exemptions for people who are sharing rides.

Matthew Daus: 00:08:57

We need to have exemptions maybe for cleaner vehicles.

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why not?

Matthew Daus: 00:09:00

if we want to solve two problems and get infrastructure on the EVs and more

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EVs on the road, why aren't they exempt?

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And most importantly, technically, we don't really consider in most cities

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around the country some exceptions.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:14

Maybe when you were in Maryland, but, we don't consider the private bus

Matthew Daus: 00:09:18

and taxi and TNC industry as part of the transportation ecosystem.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:22

That needs to change.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:23

Absolutely.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:23

Yeah.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:24

So, so put the money that you're collecting from those passengers

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into a lockbox and do two things.

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Figure out a way to get free rides to the disabled community.

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they should not have to pay at this point.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:33

They've been so, really, fighting this battle since the ADA was passed.

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And they don't still have the service.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:40

We have enough wheelchair vehicles in New York City now to have the MTA

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run them and have congestion pricing money pay for that instead of building

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more rail and more buses that may remain empty in certain communities.

Matthew Daus: 00:09:54

Let's do a first and last mile partnership like the FTA Sandbox in New York City

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and let's do it in the transit deserts.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:01

And let's retool this whole thing and hit the pause button and do it correctly.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:05

It's much better than it was at the outset, when we first started

Matthew Daus: 00:10:09

this debate many years ago.

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but now is a real opportunity, I think, for the MTA to do some listening and to

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roll it back and get their ducks in order.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:18

And then after the election's over, go back to the well and do it the best.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:22

There's always going to be people complaining, Paul.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:25

But there's just way too many people complaining too many lawsuits.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:29

It's not an easy thing to implement, but there are still

Matthew Daus: 00:10:32

things that they can do better.

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So I'm hoping that they could retool it and it'll come back and

Matthew Daus: 00:10:36

it'll be a more workable system.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:38

And it will focus on congestion in the environment first, not the money first,

Matthew Daus: 00:10:42

because it really caused a problem for, for Janno Lieber and the MTA because it

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all became about the money because the legislature made it about the money.

Matthew Daus: 00:10:51

That's the wrong approach.

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It should not be about the money first and foremost.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:54

So specifically, Governor Hochul announced, that

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she is putting the pause on this, but there's no timeline, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:11:00

She didn't say when, when it's going to be kind of revamped or anything.

Matthew Daus: 00:11:04

That's correct.

Matthew Daus: 00:11:04

There's no time limit.

Matthew Daus: 00:11:05

It's an indefinite pause.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:06

Well, maybe we'll come back and get you on again in

Paul Comfort: 00:11:08

six months if it gets restarted with, with your recommendations or, or

Paul Comfort: 00:11:12

other things that, could happen there.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:15

but two things I want to talk about today is about crime on New York Metro.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:18

We've mentioned that Governor Hochul, she put National Guard troops in the stations.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:22

I want to talk about that for a minute and then an homage to Rich Davey, a good

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friend of both of ours who is leaving out.

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So first off though, what's going on with the National Guard on public transit?

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A lot of people in America may not realize or around the world that

Paul Comfort: 00:11:35

close to 40 percent of the people that ride public transportation in America

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every day do so in New York City.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:41

That's the numbers we're talking about.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:43

It's, a plurality of the trips in America take place in one city.

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And it's been the city that's gotten a lot of negative attention.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:50

at least every week I see a news story in the New York Post, which I

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have on my phone, Somebody got hurt, somebody got pushed in front of a

Paul Comfort: 00:11:56

rail track, somebody got stabbed.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:58

So the governor put National Guard on there.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:00

Matthew, tell us what's going on.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:02

Yeah.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:02

And, it's funny because, when we did our podcast, the last time I was on, it was

Matthew Daus: 00:12:06

the beginning of 2000, 23 and, Rich Davey was just starting and now he's leaving

Matthew Daus: 00:12:11

his administration here is going back to Massachusetts for the port authority.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:17

And, he's a great guy and, and, and he really fine public servant, then

Matthew Daus: 00:12:20

we're going to miss him, just like, I kind of miss the train daddy too,

Matthew Daus: 00:12:23

honestly, but you know, I got to say, um, we need to get this right.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:26

I don't know if it's working or not.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:28

There's a lot of critics about it.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:29

I mean, I do know that the fare evasion is a huge issue.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:32

There's got, there are other solutions.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:34

I think that they're looking at now and they need to pick the right solution.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:37

the, the security guards, if remember before they put National Guards in there,

Matthew Daus: 00:12:41

Rich and, and, and Janno Lieber put, a whole bunch of security firms in there,

Matthew Daus: 00:12:45

security guards to try to just stop people from evading fares, so I, I think the

Matthew Daus: 00:12:50

strides are being made, look, there's, there's obviously attention on this now.

Matthew Daus: 00:12:54

People have a different, no pun intended, comfort level on what they

Matthew Daus: 00:12:58

would like to see in the subway.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:00

I, for one, would like to see officers there.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:02

There are other people that don't like it.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:03

They don't, they feel it's unnecessary, but with cameras and

Matthew Daus: 00:13:07

technology, I think that's really kind of where the answer should be.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:10

We need to have humans.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:12

I'm not a policing expert, but I do believe we need to have a

Matthew Daus: 00:13:15

human enforcement presence there.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:18

It shouldn't be like you're going into a war zone where there's people

Matthew Daus: 00:13:21

everywhere and it looks overbearing, but there should be a responsiveness in a

Matthew Daus: 00:13:26

unit and a ComStat system underground.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:29

because it was done before.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:31

The subways were safe in the past and we can get back there.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:34

And I think technology is what is very much needed,

Matthew Daus: 00:13:37

protecting privacy and so forth.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:39

But, this is one of the things I would cover with my students.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:42

If you look at any transportation sustainability textbook, right?

Matthew Daus: 00:13:46

If you want to get people out of their cars, you want them to use

Matthew Daus: 00:13:48

public transit, you've got to have a good, clean, experience.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:52

They need to run on time, they, they need to, it needs to be a pleasurable

Matthew Daus: 00:13:56

experience, and it needs to be safe.

Matthew Daus: 00:13:57

So, the whole narrative of getting congestion pricing and moving people

Matthew Daus: 00:14:01

onto public transit falls apart, and getting people out of their cars

Matthew Daus: 00:14:04

falls apart if the system is not safe.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:08

And if it's, if it's not efficient, so for all of those advocates out there

Matthew Daus: 00:14:12

that are anti car, and they want to get people into the trains and the

Matthew Daus: 00:14:15

buses, this is the public safety issue is that the, I guess the bottom of

Matthew Daus: 00:14:19

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?

Matthew Daus: 00:14:21

You go from the most important ones to the top.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:24

so that is the number one priority.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:26

and then, then you need to talk about efficiency, and price.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:30

and, otherwise, it's possible the revenue numbers may not have come in.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:34

there's a lot of companies that, are still working from home.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:37

And if it's not affordable for people or safe for people to get

Matthew Daus: 00:14:40

to the office, that whole modal shift thing is a big question mark.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:44

So it's also possible that that 1 billion figure may not have been met, and the

Matthew Daus: 00:14:49

prices of goods would be going up too.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:51

So it's a very complicated situation, but the Governor, I think, is

Matthew Daus: 00:14:56

making strides on this front.

Matthew Daus: 00:14:59

I mean, I personally don't have a problem with the National Guard

Matthew Daus: 00:15:01

being in there, but, there's got to be a better solution than that.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:04

And I think it's a combination of Yeah, long term, right?

Matthew Daus: 00:15:06

Yeah.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:07

It's, it's optics.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:08

I mean, the optics could be good for some people, but other people

Matthew Daus: 00:15:11

might feel like this is a little overwhelming, Are we that unsafe that

Matthew Daus: 00:15:14

we need to have guards everywhere?

Matthew Daus: 00:15:16

so, look, it, it, it's a work in progress, but the good news?

Matthew Daus: 00:15:20

Is in New York.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:21

I think it's on the radar screen.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:23

The Mayor has more appointments to the board.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:25

Mayor Joshi and other folks from the administration and the mayor

Matthew Daus: 00:15:28

and the governor for the first time, I think, in recorded history are

Matthew Daus: 00:15:30

working together in New York City, which doesn't happen very often.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:34

So I think the stars are aligned enough that we're going to get some good results.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:38

The mayor used to be a police officer.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:39

He understands public safety.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:41

So, I have high hopes that they're going to fix that problem.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:43

And I really have high hopes that the governor now, hitting the pause

Matthew Daus: 00:15:47

button, they're going to come back.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:48

And it's going to be better than before, and maybe they will get

Matthew Daus: 00:15:52

some people to calm down and remove their opposition to it.

Matthew Daus: 00:15:55

It's a great opportunity right now to try to fix the mess that it's become.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:00

let's switch topics a little bit.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:01

you've got a lot going on in your world.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:03

You're partner and chairman of the Windels Marks Transportation Practice Group.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:07

You're president of the International Association of Transportation Regulators.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:11

You're the Transportation Technology Chair of the University of

Paul Comfort: 00:16:14

Transportation Research Center.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:16

You're also chair of the Bar Association's Transportation Committee.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:20

I mean, you've got a lot going on there, Matthew.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:22

and, and you're, You're wired and connected, which I think is awesome.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:26

But tell us about, just a little bit, if you could, about the International

Paul Comfort: 00:16:29

Association of Transportation Regulators, and you've got an upcoming conference

Paul Comfort: 00:16:32

coming up, in Fort Lauderdale.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:34

Yes, actually, thank you for all of that.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:36

I, what, all of these different hats, I am very busy as you indicated.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:40

But it really gives me a good and interesting perspective.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:44

not only as a former government official and regulator like you,

Matthew Daus: 00:16:47

you come out of the government world and now I'm in the academic world.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:51

I'm in, I'm in the business world, representing businesses,

Matthew Daus: 00:16:54

seeing the other side of things.

Matthew Daus: 00:16:55

And I'm glad I stayed involved for the last 14, 15 years with the ITR because,

Matthew Daus: 00:17:00

it's look, it's a volunteer effort, but I, it really, it brings a lot of joy.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:04

to train regulators in multimodal innovation and regulation and

Matthew Daus: 00:17:09

trying to effectuate change.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:10

We have reports that we put out, we did a taxi modernization report

Matthew Daus: 00:17:14

after the Uber taxi partnership.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:16

We're looking to get rid of unnecessary regulations, but keep the good ones.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:20

We, we do best practices and have a lot to offer.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:23

We have a lot of reports on our website and our conferences, give

Matthew Daus: 00:17:27

us the opportunity to get a broad, a broad base of people together to talk

Matthew Daus: 00:17:30

about the issues and develop our model regulations and guiding principles for

Matthew Daus: 00:17:34

anything from congestion mitigation to smart meters and how do you,

Matthew Daus: 00:17:38

what's the future of the taxi meter?

Matthew Daus: 00:17:40

so it goes from the broad to the minutiae.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:43

and our, our conference this year, we did an equity conference,

Matthew Daus: 00:17:46

2 years ago in Memphis.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:48

and last year, we went to Scottsdale, Arizona, where we focused on automation.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:52

and our theme this year is regulatory sunshine.

Matthew Daus: 00:17:55

we're going to be, from the 7th to the 11th in October, we're going to

Matthew Daus: 00:17:58

be at the W Hotel in Fort Lauderdale.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:00

We have 3 conference sponsors, 3 counties, Miami Dade, Broward,

Matthew Daus: 00:18:04

and West Palm, and we're going to have a taste of South Florida.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:07

We're going to have various events in all 3 counties, but more importantly,

Matthew Daus: 00:18:10

we're going to have an action packed program with an NEMT workshop.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:14

We're going to have, our, equity, hackathon results, presented.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:18

We're going to have panels again on robo taxis and where we are there,

Matthew Daus: 00:18:22

where we are with electrification.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:23

We have, we, we have a boot camp on it.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:26

On taxi meter technology, and telematics and insurance, we're

Matthew Daus: 00:18:29

touching on all the cutting edge issues in for hire ground transportation.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:34

Buses, Ubers, NEMT.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:36

And we really want to walk out of this conference with a better understanding

Matthew Daus: 00:18:39

of, in particular, this one on NEMT and, work with Trapeze and MV and a lot of

Matthew Daus: 00:18:45

work you've done over the years, Paul.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:47

I mean, this is an industry that's being disrupted right now.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:50

And the role of the regulator is unclear.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:53

the brokerage model is under attack in some cities.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:56

Everybody's got new software.

Matthew Daus: 00:18:57

There's a lot of inventory that that the taxis have with wheelchair vehicles.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:02

And, the whole system is, is being disrupted on numerous levels.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:07

And there's this organization called NEMTAC that's doing a

Matthew Daus: 00:19:10

certification for those who go above and beyond the regulations.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:13

And there's a lot of government money available for this industry.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:16

So.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:17

In terms of what the regulators role should be moving forward.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:20

That's one of the things we're going to be discussing and we're going

Matthew Daus: 00:19:22

to tackle the tough issues on AVs.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:24

we've been at the forefront of talking about the socioeconomic issues like

Matthew Daus: 00:19:28

equity and accessibility, not just the safety issue, which is important,

Matthew Daus: 00:19:32

but, we have guiding principles that are out there that are being followed.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:36

we were raising the issue of accessibility and now there's companies that are doing

Matthew Daus: 00:19:39

it in the AV sector, I think just like congestion pricing, Paul, AVs, you can't

Matthew Daus: 00:19:45

remove the politics from any of that.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:46

there's very few issues that you can have a big change in

Matthew Daus: 00:19:51

mobility and not have to deal and understand and manage the politics.

Matthew Daus: 00:19:54

Right?

Matthew Daus: 00:19:55

on AVs, the politics are huge, you know, it's not just the safety issue,

Matthew Daus: 00:19:59

it's, managing all the constituents, the Teamsters union is making,

Matthew Daus: 00:20:03

a real push against having these driverless cars at the state level,

Matthew Daus: 00:20:06

the accessibility community is waking up and saying, what about us?

Paul Comfort: 00:20:10

Right.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:10

so I think tackling those issues and navigating that is even

Matthew Daus: 00:20:14

more important for the OEMs than all of the things that we're dealing with now

Matthew Daus: 00:20:18

with, the mobility nimbyism that, that we have involving congestion pricing.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:22

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:23

Matt, you're, I think one of the few guys I know that's busier than me,

Paul Comfort: 00:20:26

I think, with all the organizations that you're a part of, but you just

Paul Comfort: 00:20:29

announced a big, connection point with CoMotion and my good friends over there.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:33

tell us about what you're doing with them.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:35

Well, I really fell in love with CoMotion, when I go to every

Matthew Daus: 00:20:38

conference as you know, right, and there, I see the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:42

And there were two conferences that really stuck out in my mind as being the future.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:46

Like first, it was the Shared Use Mobility Center.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:48

I used to go there and see the future.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:50

And then when I got to Commotion LA and I met John Rossant I realized,

Matthew Daus: 00:20:53

this is truly like it's next level.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:56

It's not just about sharing.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:57

It's about everything.

Matthew Daus: 00:20:58

Multimodal.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:00

But what I liked about it is that the government attendees mix and mingle

Matthew Daus: 00:21:04

with the private sector folks, tech startups, people who have all new

Matthew Daus: 00:21:08

products, like they have like a little shark tank thing going on there.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:11

Yeah, that's right.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:12

I, I really loved it because part of the problem with everything in,

Matthew Daus: 00:21:15

in mobility, is the government siloing and having their own discussions without,

Matthew Daus: 00:21:20

and feeling uncomfortable talking to the private sector in LA and in Miami.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:24

it's very clear that the public officials have different mindsets.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:27

They clearly are more open to public private partnerships.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:30

Yeah.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:30

our, what we're, we're looking to do,

Matthew Daus: 00:21:33

we joined each other's boards.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:34

We're going to collaborate more and more, and, also bring an

Matthew Daus: 00:21:37

international component to it.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:39

I So we're going to try to marry our worlds and do programs together.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:42

but these are the types of groups that we want to partner with it seemed

Matthew Daus: 00:21:45

like it makes sense to partner with Commotion, that brings that private

Matthew Daus: 00:21:49

sector component to it, so we have a lot of lessons we can learn from the

Matthew Daus: 00:21:52

private sector, and I think John and his team have done a really good job.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:55

I think, you know, you were there in Miami, I know, last year.

Matthew Daus: 00:21:57

Yeah, we launched our cookbook there, he's got a recipe in it,

Paul Comfort: 00:22:00

yeah.

Matthew Daus: 00:22:00

I did a couple of the recipes, they were amazing.

Matthew Daus: 00:22:02

Oh, good.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:03

I also want to comment on, for folks who don't get your e

Paul Comfort: 00:22:07

newsletter, you, you put out a daily newsletter about really interesting

Paul Comfort: 00:22:11

news and anything related to people movement and it's a, it's a valuable

Paul Comfort: 00:22:15

service, a daily transportation news that you provide free of charge to people.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:20

Matthew Daus thank you for giving us your opinion today on so many

Paul Comfort: 00:22:23

hot topics that are affecting public transportation and people movement.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:26

Thank you for your work in the industry, and we look forward to continuing to work

Paul Comfort: 00:22:30

with you and hear from you in the future.

Matthew Daus: 00:22:32

Thank you, Paul.

Matthew Daus: 00:22:33

It's an honor to be here again.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:39

After this interview was recorded.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:41

There have been a few updates to the story we wanted to share with you.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:44

Hi, this is Tris Hussey, editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:48

In the days since governor Hochul pressed pause on the congestion

Tris Hussey: 00:22:52

charging in New York city.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:54

Criticism has been coming from.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:56

All sides.

Tris Hussey: 00:22:57

But that's not the only news here.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:00

There were questions if Governor Hochul even has the power

Tris Hussey: 00:23:03

to stop congestion charges.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:05

Since it was the New York state legislature that empowered the MTA to

Tris Hussey: 00:23:09

implement a congestion charging, scheme.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:12

In the first place.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:14

Plus the governor's lock on approval from the MTA board might not be

Tris Hussey: 00:23:19

as a sure thing as she thought.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:21

With several board members already stating they don't support her plan.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:26

But the problems don't end there.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:27

MTA chief executive Janno Leiber is preparing people for scale back

Tris Hussey: 00:23:31

plans at the MTA because of losing this projected $1 billion in yearly

Tris Hussey: 00:23:36

revenue from the congestion charges.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:38

And worse.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:39

Bloomberg is reporting that halting the congestion charges, and the consequenting

Tris Hussey: 00:23:43

revenue hit is making bond agencies consider lowering the MTAs credit, rating

Tris Hussey: 00:23:48

Stay tuned here on Transit Unplugged in the Transit Unplugged News Minute

Tris Hussey: 00:23:52

for updates on this story, because we've surely not heard the last word

Tris Hussey: 00:23:56

on congestion charges in New York City.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:59

Of course we'd like to thank our guest Matthew donnas for being

Tris Hussey: 00:24:01

on the show and talking about congestion charges with Paul.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:04

And coming up next week, like we promised last week, will be Erick Van

Tris Hussey: 00:24:08

Wagenen President and CEO of WeDriveU formerly known as National Express.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:13

Erick and Paul talk about contracting in the public transit industry and

Tris Hussey: 00:24:17

how it helps fuel innovation in our transition to zero emissions.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:22

Hey, we all know your fans of Transit Unplugged.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:26

It would be really great if you could do us a favor.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:29

Could you leave us a rating or maybe even a review wherever you listen to podcasts?

Tris Hussey: 00:24:34

Rating and reviewing the show helps other people find Transit Unplugged.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:38

And become part of our transit enthusiast and transit nerd network.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:43

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:45

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:49

And at Transit Unplugged we're passionate about telling those stories.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:53

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy..