Episode 39
Special Episode: Books and New Transit Funding with Paul Comfort and Davey Kim
Today, Paul Comfort, Transit Evangelist and SVP/Chief Customer Officer at Modaxo, and Davey Kim SVP/Principal, National Transportation Policy and Multimodal Strategy, at WSP USA, join METRO’s Executive Editor Alex Roman.
Topics include:
- Paul’s “The New Future of Public Transportation” book.
- The Federal Government’s Role in Funding Public Transit.
- Political Will to Replace Both the Federal and State Gas Taxes.
- Identifying Tomorrow’s Forward-Thinking Leaders.
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Original show notes from: https://www.metro-magazine.com/10224317/books-and-new-transit-funding-with-paul-comfort-and-davey-kim
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Transcript
Hi, welcome to another special edition of Transit Unplugged.
Speaker:I'm Tris Hussey editor of the podcast.
Speaker:And this week we have Metro perspectives from Metro magazine.
Speaker:Metro magazine, executive editor, Elle Truman interviews, Paul and
Speaker:frequent transit unplugged guest, Davey Kim, but some of the hottest issues
Speaker:going on in transit right now, like funding and just, how are we going
Speaker:to wean ourselves off the gas tax?
Speaker:As people stop using gas.
Speaker:So stay tuned for this whole episode.
Speaker:Hope you enjoy it.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Alex Roman, Executive Editor for Metro Magazine, and
Speaker:welcome back to Metrospectives.
Speaker:Today, my guests are Transit Evangelist, Paul Comfort, and WSP USA's Davie Kim.
Speaker:Today, the guys joined me to discuss Paul's new book, The New
Speaker:Future of Public Transportation, as well as Davie's chapter in on the
Speaker:future of public transit funding.
Speaker:This is a great talk.
Speaker:Both of these guys got a ton of experience.
Speaker:Hope you enjoy it.
Speaker:Thanks for tuning in.
Speaker:Well, thanks for joining me today, guys.
Speaker:Uh, how's it going?
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:Doing great.
Speaker:Thanks, Alex.
Speaker:Good, good.
Speaker:So we're here on the occasion of another Paul Comfort book.
Speaker:Uh, Paul, can you talk a little bit about, uh, the book you have coming up and, and.
Speaker:You know what, what you tried to capture in this one.
Speaker:Boom, baby.
Speaker:Six books in six years.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And uh, thanks to guys like Davey Kim.
Speaker:Uh, this one is as back to number one on Amazon.
Speaker:So very happy about that.
Speaker:Uh, basically the idea behind all my books, Alex, and this one in
Speaker:particular is, um, I like to highlight Trans in the industry and, and talk
Speaker:to the most, you know, the most, uh, experienced and people with the most
Speaker:expertise in the industry about it.
Speaker:So that's what this book is.
Speaker:Uh, we, I'd written a book called the future of public
Speaker:transportation that was published.
Speaker:If people will remember back, it was published in March of 2020, you know,
Speaker:the month that the pandemic hit the country, and so much has changed since
Speaker:then for public transportation, uh, that, uh, SAE, the publisher, Society
Speaker:of Automotive Engineers, reached out to me about nine months ago and said, Paul,
Speaker:you know, we, we loved your first book.
Speaker:We'd like you, we'd like to publish one for you now, um,
Speaker:on what the new topics are.
Speaker:I mean, you know, five years ago, You didn't hear about every month a
Speaker:transit system having a, um, cyber attack where they were hacked and
Speaker:had to have, you know, uh, with ransomware and that kind of thing.
Speaker:Five years ago, you weren't even thinking about how AI was going to,
Speaker:uh, impact public transportation.
Speaker:Five years ago We weren't thinking about new ways to fund public transportation,
Speaker:such as Dave is going to talk about today.
Speaker:There's so many new things that have happened.
Speaker:So that's what the book is.
Speaker:30 chapters broken into five categories.
Speaker:One category is all about people.
Speaker:The next is about what our modal futures are going to be.
Speaker:You know, what autonomous vehicles, what's integrated mobility, what's
Speaker:the future of paratransit, what's the future of mobility as a service.
Speaker:That's a term that's kind of fallen off in its usage in our
Speaker:industry, but It still is active.
Speaker:What's the future of zero emission fuels?
Speaker:There's another one, right?
Speaker:Nobody was talking about hydrogen fuel four or five years ago.
Speaker:Now it's the hottest topic, you know, literally, it's explosive,
Speaker:let's say, in the industry.
Speaker:And, uh, and then data funding and faring, which is what Davies
Speaker:is, and then geographic future.
Speaker:So it's a great way to look at, uh, what's happening around the world.
Speaker:With a focus on the United States, I would say most of the chapters
Speaker:are focused on North America, but we have chapters from all around, uh,
Speaker:to say what is happening right now.
Speaker:And the last thing I want to mention about the kind of the way it works is There's
Speaker:30 chapters about 30 different topics.
Speaker:Like I mentioned, you don't necessarily need to read this straight
Speaker:through like a novel, you know.
Speaker:My suggestion to people is look at the table of contents and find
Speaker:the five or six chapters in areas that you might be interested in.
Speaker:For instance, um, you know, Mohammed Mezghani takes a look at the global,
Speaker:Uh, view of public transportation.
Speaker:He's the head of UITP.
Speaker:Dr.
Speaker:Karen Philbrick talks about workforce shortages.
Speaker:So you may grab a chapter about something that interests you or maybe you're looking
Speaker:at your transportation trust fund in your state and you're like, crap, it's
Speaker:go, we're going, uh, it's going dry because we're only relying on gas tax.
Speaker:Well, then you need to read the chapter that David Kim wrote about
Speaker:some new ways we're funding transit.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, you know, I think both of you have been in the transit
Speaker:and public transportation industry for quite some time.
Speaker:And you mentioned, I mean, a lot has changed in 5 years, 4 or 5 years.
Speaker:Can you talk a little bit, both of you, maybe Davey could start with how
Speaker:much transit has changed in 5 years and what are some of the reasons?
Speaker:Because we're used to Kind of a, um, you know, slow going with people not really,
Speaker:uh, quick to, you know, grasp on to technology and, and really take leaps.
Speaker:Um, you know, what's changed and, and, you know, what do you think
Speaker:are some of the reasons for that?
Speaker:Well, I guess the first and most obvious one would be something along the lines
Speaker:of ridership changes, uh, due to the pandemic, due to, uh, work from home,
Speaker:teleworking, flexible work schedules.
Speaker:And so transit agencies are having to completely redesign their service
Speaker:models and operations and rely less on the traditional, uh, morning and p.
Speaker:m.
Speaker:commute and offer service at different times of the day and on weekends and
Speaker:really try to make it more of a, um, Not so much of a commuter system, but a system
Speaker:that can meet the needs of everybody.
Speaker:And so we're seeing those changes in a way that did not exist prior to the pandemic.
Speaker:There are so many changes, but clearly, um, this is a different transit space
Speaker:than what it was five years ago.
Speaker:And just really quickly on Paul's book, I can't wait to read all
Speaker:of these chapters, 30 of them.
Speaker:Well, 29, I don't need to read my own book.
Speaker:29
Speaker:chapters.
Speaker:29 really interesting, fascinating topics and, uh, such important areas
Speaker:that we need to better understand.
Speaker:I'm especially interested in reading about the role of AI in
Speaker:transit operations and service.
Speaker:High speed rail, bus rapid transit, zero emission bus,
Speaker:workforce development challenges.
Speaker:All of those and so many others are so important and so I'm really
Speaker:excited to dive into all those chapters and learn from our peers.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, and Paul, what do you think's changed?
Speaker:I mean, I'm sure 10 years ago, you would have heard AI and been like,
Speaker:Hey, get out of here with that.
Speaker:Um, you know, what do you think has changed kind of the, you know,
Speaker:transit taking on innovation a little bit more and being a little
Speaker:more, uh, uh, forward in that?
Speaker:Yeah, you know, this may be a little esoteric, but I really think what's
Speaker:changed is we're in a different environment today than we were four
Speaker:or five years ago as a society.
Speaker:Um, the, the pandemic was a gut punch to public transit,
Speaker:but also to society as a whole.
Speaker:So we've seen all kinds of societal problems spill over
Speaker:into public transportation in a way they haven't before.
Speaker:Such as crime and people experiencing homelessness that now have become
Speaker:issues that public transit leaders are grappling with and trying to figure out
Speaker:what's the best way to approach this.
Speaker:I want to be, you know, humane, but we also, uh, we, we also have to
Speaker:run a, you know, we have to make the buses run on time, as they
Speaker:say, or the trains run on time.
Speaker:So this whole environment, while keeping in mind.
Speaker:The subject of my chapter that really the heart that all of us need to be
Speaker:operating from is a heart of compassion.
Speaker:You know, I love the quote from Martin Luther King who said everybody
Speaker:can be great and any everybody can be great because anybody can serve
Speaker:And I just think that's so good.
Speaker:And that really what we're about in public transportation has not changed.
Speaker:We are about service Uh, service to people who maybe can afford another
Speaker:way, but we want them to get off the road and less, have less congestion.
Speaker:Service to people with disabilities who maybe have no other way
Speaker:to get where they're going.
Speaker:Or service to my grandmother who may, uh, you know, just not be sure about
Speaker:driving at night anymore and wants to, wants to take public mobility.
Speaker:Uh, so we need to always remember what is at the core has not changed, which is
Speaker:service to others motivated by compassion.
Speaker:And then how do we, um, All these different things that Davey
Speaker:just mentioned, all these new technologies, how do we put them
Speaker:in service of our core mission?
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:And Davey, let's get into Davey's chapter on your book.
Speaker:I know that, um, it's a big one as far as public transit.
Speaker:I think, um, you know, we're solving innovation, we're finding
Speaker:new ways to move passengers, to build, uh, transportation systems.
Speaker:Um, public transit itself, though, is funded by the Highway Trust Fund.
Speaker:And, um, we all know about the issues with that.
Speaker:So can you talk a little bit about your chapter?
Speaker:Um, and you know, how you delved into that subject.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Well, let me start with a really high level comment and then
Speaker:we'll get into the chapter.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:At a high level, and you can ask any transit agency executive, funding for
Speaker:transit is a perennial and annual slog.
Speaker:It is a challenge.
Speaker:Uh, Paul, I'm sure you felt like a professional fundraiser when
Speaker:you were running the agency.
Speaker:Pass around the tin cup, scrape up, scrape enough dollars to keep your operations
Speaker:and systems and services running, not to mention capital improvements.
Speaker:It's a, it's a real challenge.
Speaker:And quite frankly, and I'm going to be candid here, transit is oftentimes
Speaker:seen by many, many policymakers.
Speaker:As a stepchild or second class citizen relative to other modes of transportation,
Speaker:highways and roads in particular, and there are exceptions, of course,
Speaker:uh, but that is oftentimes the case.
Speaker:And so from a pure political standpoint, transit, um, does not, uh, compete
Speaker:at the same level as highways and roads, not a reflection of transit.
Speaker:It's a reflection of priorities among policymakers.
Speaker:Now on the chapter itself.
Speaker:Um, I talk about the looming crisis, and that is, uh, that, that is facing
Speaker:the gas tax at the federal level, but also at the state level, too.
Speaker:The gas tax is dying a slow death.
Speaker:Its days are numbered, uh, and that's, and everyone knows that.
Speaker:It's no secret.
Speaker:And, uh, it's time to pivot away from the gas tax.
Speaker:And a lot of states have been doing pilot programs looking at a road
Speaker:usage charge or mileage based user fee where you pay by the mile instead of
Speaker:per gallon when you fill up your car.
Speaker:And so many states have been doing pilot programs.
Speaker:The federal government is about to do a national pilot as they are required
Speaker:to do under the infrastructure law.
Speaker:They haven't done it yet, but they will.
Speaker:Uh, probably in the next couple of years, and that will demonstrate
Speaker:at a very large scale the viability of a road usage charge, and that's
Speaker:going to be a really important test.
Speaker:Uh, now to be sure, transitioning from the gas tax, which has been
Speaker:the method, the revenue method for literally a hundred years, To, uh,
Speaker:something new, uh, will not be easy.
Speaker:It will come with a lot of pain.
Speaker:Uh, there are public acceptance questions.
Speaker:There is, uh, the question of political viability, political
Speaker:support, or maybe lack thereof.
Speaker:Uh, and change is just plain of the word.
Speaker:It's hard for most people.
Speaker:We're wired, humans are wired to maintain the status quo.
Speaker:We humans do not like change.
Speaker:And so this isn't going to be a painful change, but it must happen because
Speaker:everyone knows, it's no secret, that the gas tax is pretty much dead.
Speaker:Every year, gas tax revenues go down and down and down.
Speaker:And that's no way to run a transportation system whether you're on the highway or
Speaker:roadside or transit side or anywhere else.
Speaker:So, what I say in the book is that if you care about the future of
Speaker:transit funding, you better keep a close eye on the federal gas tax and
Speaker:what it's, what's going to happen and what will eventually replace it.
Speaker:Because the Highway Trust Fund has been an important source of
Speaker:funding for highways and transit.
Speaker:Uh, and uh, that's going to, that's going to be a big test in the years to come.
Speaker:And Alex, um, as, as you haven't mentioned it yet, but, uh, I'm sure you
Speaker:did it in the opening, uh, you know, both Davey and I led statewide agencies.
Speaker:Davey was basically the Secretary of Transportation for the state of
Speaker:California, and I was head of the Maryland Transit Administration, and we
Speaker:both relied on our state transportation funding, trust funds, and so, like, for
Speaker:instance, in Maryland, where I'm at, It was the gas tax, it was corporate
Speaker:income tax, it was MVA, Motor Vehicle Administration, fees that all went
Speaker:into this, and um, and there were some other fees that went into it as well.
Speaker:But the reason that it's going down is actually a positive.
Speaker:The positive is that cars are getting better and better mileage.
Speaker:Uh, you know, cars are getting 30, 35 miles to the gallon, whereas, you know,
Speaker:we remember, Davey and I remember, maybe you do, Alex, back in the days
Speaker:when, you know, a big 8 cylinder car might get 12 miles to the gallon or 15,
Speaker:you know, and those days are no more.
Speaker:And so people don't have to fill up as much, plus add on to that the
Speaker:people that are getting electric cars, who aren't getting any gas.
Speaker:And it's not really fair for people that, for them not to pay
Speaker:anything for the roads and for transit, and everybody else has to.
Speaker:So it's really a fairness and an equity issue, uh, as we
Speaker:look at how to transition.
Speaker:I think the one thing that people are going to be scared about is, uh,
Speaker:and I'd be interested in your take on this, Davey, is that, you know,
Speaker:We don't want to get taxed twice.
Speaker:We don't want to have gas tax and a road charge.
Speaker:And I think some people are afraid that, you know, once the government gets
Speaker:their hands in something, it's going to be very hard for them to get it out.
Speaker:And so how, how are people addressing that, Davey?
Speaker:Not to take your job, Alex, but.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good question.
Speaker:I, especially here in California, I think people, um, we voted in for some
Speaker:of these gas taxes and now We're paying five dollars, close to five dollars
Speaker:regularly, and people are like, hey, what did I agree to pay for this?
Speaker:And you know, in fact, we did.
Speaker:So yeah.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:and so we have a messaging challenge, and here's a a funny anecdote.
Speaker:When I was transportation secretary in California, there was a legislative
Speaker:hearing on transportation funding, and a legislator who shall remain unnamed
Speaker:basically said, I cannot believe.
Speaker:The state of California is looking at enacting a road usage charge.
Speaker:We already pay so much in gas tax.
Speaker:This amounts to double taxation.
Speaker:What the legislator didn't realize is that a road usage charge would
Speaker:eventually replace the gas tax, so it is not a case of double taxation.
Speaker:If a legislator believes that's the case, um, that is also, uh, that will
Speaker:also be true with the general public.
Speaker:And so we have a lot of educating to do.
Speaker:The messaging is very complicated, especially when you layer on top
Speaker:of that congestion pricing, toll roads, and all of those things.
Speaker:Pricing in general is very complicated.
Speaker:Bridge tolls, um, people feel like they're paying way too much.
Speaker:And so we have to come up with a better, more simple way to explain why it is.
Speaker:People are paying or will pay all these different fees and what is it going
Speaker:for and how do they benefit from it?
Speaker:What's in it for them?
Speaker:So that's our collective messaging challenge how to How to make it
Speaker:easier to digest and understand.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I'm curious because, um, you know, we've talked about, with
Speaker:Metro, we've talked about this quite a bit, uh, over the years.
Speaker:Talked to Jeff Booth about, um, the Highway Trust Fund and
Speaker:just that there's no solutions.
Speaker:But there's also been a reticence.
Speaker:By, um, politicians to raise the gas tax or to make any kind of changes to that,
Speaker:um, you know, what's the climate in, in Capitol Hill and in state houses, um, to
Speaker:actually take on some of these ideas, um, and, and move forward to find a solution.
Speaker:Well, on Capitol Hill, there is no more talk of raising the gas tax.
Speaker:That is dead.
Speaker:There were efforts in recent years, I would say the past 10 or
Speaker:20 years to increase the gas tax.
Speaker:Lack of political support, too politically controversial.
Speaker:Now that issue is off the table.
Speaker:Uh, that's not being talked about anymore.
Speaker:Now at the state level, some states have indeed raised the gas tax in
Speaker:recent years, California being one of them and many others too, including
Speaker:states led by Republican governors and Republican state legislatures.
Speaker:Um, but even that will not be enough.
Speaker:In fact, in California, Um, the Legislative Analyst's Office has,
Speaker:uh, estimated that, uh, gas tax receipts in California will go down
Speaker:dramatically in the next decade or so.
Speaker:Uh, even with that gas tax increase that was enacted less than 10
Speaker:years ago, it simply does not pay for everything the state needs.
Speaker:Um, so, so you've got that at the state level, yeah, at the federal
Speaker:level, there is no more talk of trying to increase the gas tax.
Speaker:It's politically a non starter, and it's dead, and again, everyone understands,
Speaker:it does not have a future, and it's time to move away from the gas tax, and
Speaker:to try a different revenue mechanism.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:and Alex, here in Maryland, uh, you know, there's a task force formed
Speaker:by the governor and the legislature, that includes a lot of them, that
Speaker:is looking at the exact same thing Davey's talking about, is, because
Speaker:remember, it's not just paying for, you know, public transportation.
Speaker:It's also paying for roads and highways, uh, and a lot of other infrastructure
Speaker:projects, bridges, et cetera.
Speaker:And so as that trust fund continued to dwindle because people are
Speaker:driving less, uh, and in addition, You know, it's not, it's, um, it's
Speaker:the hybrid work schedule, right?
Speaker:People aren't driving into work five days a week anymore.
Speaker:They're, they're working sometimes two or three days at home.
Speaker:So all these factors are leading to less and less funds going into it.
Speaker:So a lot of states and localities are doing what Davey's talking
Speaker:about at a national and state level.
Speaker:Yeah, and I'm just, I guess I'm just curious that the politician's willingness,
Speaker:um, to move forward with solutions.
Speaker:I mean, this is really, I mean, uh, it could be a hot button issue
Speaker:in getting voted, uh, in or out.
Speaker:So, I, I mean, I'm just curious on where we are progressively or, or not
Speaker:in, in kind of, uh, adapting these changes and seeing that, you know,
Speaker:something really does have to change.
Speaker:Well, I think there's a greater awareness at the state level among state
Speaker:legislatures and governors to tackle this and to recognize and acknowledge
Speaker:publicly that we have a problem.
Speaker:Our transportation revenues are dwindling.
Speaker:We better do something about it and identify alternatives.
Speaker:And so the task force Paul mentioned in Maryland, um, is also happening
Speaker:in other places around the country.
Speaker:And that's why you're seeing more and more states experimenting with
Speaker:road usage charge demonstration programs, pilot programs.
Speaker:And, and so, we're seeing a greater willingness on the part of states,
Speaker:even red states, um, to doing this.
Speaker:And so, all of those state experiments will feed into,
Speaker:ultimately, the national pile that U.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:DOT will take on in the years ahead.
Speaker:And so, it's pretty exciting to see what states are doing and their willingness
Speaker:to, to tackle this head on, uh, because they recognize there's a problem.
Speaker:And they, they don't need, they should not ignore it.
Speaker:Uh, they got it.
Speaker:They have to get ahead of the curve, acknowledge the problem, and come up
Speaker:with some, some potential solutions.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:What kind of time frame are we talking about, uh, as far as federally and,
Speaker:and needing to get something done?
Speaker:And, and when do you think that, like, we can probably see something,
Speaker:uh, actually come to fruition?
Speaker:That's a great question, and I don't know that anyone really has the answer.
Speaker:Um, let's start with this national pilot.
Speaker:That will be a really important test of scalability, uh, where every
Speaker:state will be expected to include participants on a voluntary basis.
Speaker:And, um, there will need to be a lot of coordination between
Speaker:the Treasury Department and U.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:DOT, uh, in terms of collection and without getting into the technical
Speaker:details, there is so much to iron out.
Speaker:And so it could be a while before there is a full scale pivot from the
Speaker:federal gas tax to a federal RUC system.
Speaker:It could be, it could be a long time.
Speaker:A decade, two decades, three decades, who knows, but, um, it's going
Speaker:to be a transition and it's going to be a complicated one at that.
Speaker:Yeah, and both of you have mentioned kind of states taking on this, uh, this kind
Speaker:of, I'm not going to say burden, but this challenge, uh, of, of, of changing things.
Speaker:Um, are we talking about any states in particular that we've seen positive
Speaker:results or, or, Have seen, uh, something that is, is positive toward, uh, maybe
Speaker:being adapted on a, on a federal level?
Speaker:Yes, and I'd like to, to, um, call attention to a couple of red
Speaker:states that are really seen as pioneers in, in the world of RUC.
Speaker:They are Utah and Oklahoma, not progressive states by any means.
Speaker:But I love what Carlos Braceras, uh, talks about a lot.
Speaker:He's the director of Utah DOT.
Speaker:Um, he's asked this question all the time.
Speaker:You represent a conservative state, and a road usage charge
Speaker:is a form of taxation which goes against conservative principles.
Speaker:And a road usage charge, um, requires the tracking of people's mileage, which could
Speaker:be seen as an invasion of privacy, which is a violation of conservative principles.
Speaker:Why are you doing this?
Speaker:And I love his answer.
Speaker:He said, well, we believe in the user pays principle.
Speaker:If you benefit from the system, you pay for it, and we also
Speaker:believe in pay as you go.
Speaker:We're not, we need, we have so many transportation investment needs in Utah.
Speaker:We're a growing state, and, uh, we're not going to burden future generations
Speaker:with, with debt and other expenses.
Speaker:We have to, if we want something, we're going to pay for it now, and we're
Speaker:going to find a way to pay for it now.
Speaker:That's, um, that's a conservative principle, and that's why we're doing it.
Speaker:I love that answer.
Speaker:Because it shows that no matter what kind of state you are, politically speaking,
Speaker:conservative, liberal, moderate, there is a rationale for doing this system.
Speaker:It's not about double taxation, it's not about socking people with additional
Speaker:fees, it's about paying for what's needed.
Speaker:Um, in order to keep up with needs now and into the future.
Speaker:And Oklahoma is doing the same thing.
Speaker:And Oklahoma has a really interesting situation where they
Speaker:have a huge network of toll roads.
Speaker:And so, Oklahoma DOT, um, very much believes that because they have a
Speaker:long standing history when it comes to toll roads, their citizens are
Speaker:a little more open to the idea.
Speaker:of road usage charge because they've been paying, uh, for the privilege
Speaker:of using toll roads for, for so long.
Speaker:So it's, it's not so much of a foreign concept to them.
Speaker:They, they sort of understand it.
Speaker:And so they're getting their, their arms around the idea of road usage
Speaker:charge in addition to toll roads.
Speaker:And again, another conservative state willing to really lead the way when
Speaker:it comes to, um, uh, pricing systems.
Speaker:Yeah, it seems that there's going to be some kind of a chasm in between finding a
Speaker:solution and implementing that solution.
Speaker:So, so Paul, I mean, from an industry perspective, um, you know, what can public
Speaker:transit do to kind of keep funding going?
Speaker:And, and.
Speaker:Is there a kind of, um, is there a possibility that, you know, the, the
Speaker:current funding that we experienced, uh, from through the Biden administration.
Speaker:Can carry on, you know, at a bipartisan level, uh, whether we get
Speaker:a new president this year or not.
Speaker:Sure, so I'll, I'll, I'll unpack that a little bit.
Speaker:Uh, answer the last part first.
Speaker:The answer is no.
Speaker:Do not expect any more extraordinary federal funding for operating
Speaker:dollars coming out of Washington.
Speaker:Would you agree with me, Davey?
Speaker:Absolutely, yes.
Speaker:Look at what Randy has to do at WMATA, Washington Metro, right, Randy Clark,
Speaker:where he has to go around because there's no dedicated funding source.
Speaker:There's no, you know, millage on sales tax or property tax in the Washington, D.
Speaker:C.
Speaker:area.
Speaker:So he's got to go every year, hat in hand, as Davey said, to
Speaker:the Maryland Legislature, to the Virginia Legislature, to the D.
Speaker:C.
Speaker:City Council, and the federal government This is a four part funding source.
Speaker:I mean, he spends his time basically, I don't want to say a
Speaker:professional fundraiser because he's doing a lot more than that.
Speaker:He's leading one of the most dramatic recoveries from COVID of any major transit
Speaker:system in the country, but he's having to spend way too much time on trying to, um,
Speaker:you know, get these folks to pony up money every year out of their general fund.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:The fiscal cliff is here.
Speaker:The fiscal cliff is real.
Speaker:We have been subsidized with operating dollars from Washington at a very
Speaker:high level for the last three years, which we're very thankful for.
Speaker:But now we have to come off an off ramp onto that and The things that
Speaker:Davey's talking about are just one of many solutions that transit agencies
Speaker:and governments are looking at is, how can I continue to operate, you
Speaker:know, keep the fares low enough so that everyone can afford it, right?
Speaker:You know, commuter trains, commuter services in the past have had 56
Speaker:percent farebox recovery, but their ridership is down dramatically too.
Speaker:And so it is a, um, It's a real issue.
Speaker:And then you combine it up with the issues we're having with our OEMs, the
Speaker:equipment manufacturers, where a year ago we had five bus manufacturers.
Speaker:Now we're down to two or three, depending on if you count the
Speaker:third one as full operational.
Speaker:And we are in a storm in public transit.
Speaker:And what we need is strong, consistent leadership, visionary leadership to help
Speaker:us kind of navigate what comes next.
Speaker:And that's what this book is about.
Speaker:It's chapters from 30 of the world's top leaders, helping us to navigate
Speaker:things like, uh, road uses charging and what, uh, and some of, some of the
Speaker:concepts are so new that people may not have even heard of them before.
Speaker:So it's an opportunity for them to get, uh, acclimated to these new ideas
Speaker:and get some understanding about them.
Speaker:But where's kind of the, the new thought leadership coming from you, Phil?
Speaker:I mean,
Speaker:Are they being raised in today's kind of transit environment?
Speaker:Or do you think they may come from, come from, uh, you know,
Speaker:a different kind of area?
Speaker:I mean, you know, where, where's kind of the new thought leaders,
Speaker:uh, you think coming from, uh, to help kind of solve these issues?
Speaker:What do you think, Davey?
Speaker:Then I'll
Speaker:answer.
Speaker:Oh boy, that's a, that's a tough one.
Speaker:And I, Paul, I feel like you have a much better handle on that.
Speaker:So why don't you go ahead?
Speaker:All right,
Speaker:I'll do it.
Speaker:I didn't want to just keep, be the one talking.
Speaker:Um, so it's funny, you know, I just interviewed, um, Andy Lord, right?
Speaker:The, the executive who's the Transport for London Commissioner.
Speaker:He's the head of really the Western world's largest transit system.
Speaker:He spent 20 years at British Airways.
Speaker:25 years, something like that, and brought so many interesting, um,
Speaker:you know, transferable leadership skills, et cetera, to our industry.
Speaker:I think that, you know, uh, APTA and ENO and CTAA and so many groups have
Speaker:young leader, uh, programs where they're training up young leaders in the industry.
Speaker:One of the things that I find that is true, especially with young people
Speaker:in their 20s I have children that age, uh, is that they are passionate
Speaker:about, you know, And they want a job which isn't just about a paycheck.
Speaker:They want a job that intersects with their interests and their passions.
Speaker:And so many of them are focused on, you know, a cleaner, better environment, a
Speaker:better, brighter tomorrow for everyone.
Speaker:And public transit.
Speaker:It has the solution to so many of those areas, and so I think that people that
Speaker:are passionate for our industry are streaming in from all sorts of areas,
Speaker:whether it's in, you know, the parking, they came out of the parking world,
Speaker:come out of the aviation world, come out of transit, come out of some other
Speaker:industry, maybe it's tech, high tech, there's a lot of people that, you know,
Speaker:because so much of our industry is tech driven, and I work for a tech company,
Speaker:so it's all those areas, but I think most of the young people that are coming
Speaker:in, are not doing it for a paycheck.
Speaker:They're doing it for a better future.
Speaker:They want their job to actually contribute to the world's betterment,
Speaker:and I can't think of a better place for them to put their efforts than
Speaker:in the world of public transit.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah, and I'll echo Paul's comment.
Speaker:I have the great privilege of working with a lot of 20 and 30 somethings,
Speaker:both in my own company and externally, and they bring so much energy and
Speaker:passion, and I am very hopeful for the They will be tomorrow's transit CEOs.
Speaker:They'll be tomorrow's version of Randy Clark and others, and the dedication
Speaker:they bring, the new ideas, innovative thinking, focus on customer service,
Speaker:ease of use, that's where some of the great ideas are coming from and will
Speaker:come from, and so I feel tomorrow.
Speaker:I'm hopeful about the future and I think the future of transit is in good hands,
Speaker:especially when we look at today's emerging leaders in their 20s and 30s
Speaker:who will go on to positions of, of top leadership in the, in the years to come.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well, great.
Speaker:Thanks for taking the time, guys.
Speaker:Uh, Paul, uh, how can people get this book?
Speaker:Uh, well, thanks.
Speaker:Uh, the book is available, uh, at, on Amazon.
Speaker:It's available at Barnes Noble.
Speaker:It's available at SAE.
Speaker:com, which is the publisher.
Speaker:Uh, you can just Google it and look it up.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, we're going to be doing a series of events, Alex, like we
Speaker:always do, uh, around the world.
Speaker:Doing a book launch, uh, international book launch next month in Vienna, Austria.
Speaker:We'll be at the APTA event in, um, uh, in Anaheim.
Speaker:Hopefully Dave, you will be there with me and a bunch of other folks.
Speaker:And we'll be signing the book, giving away copies of it there.
Speaker:Vontas has already stepped up and said they'll do that.
Speaker:So lots of great ways to interact with the authors.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, we're interested in, in more ideas.
Speaker:And so, uh, we appreciate the opportunity to be on your show,
Speaker:Alex, to kind of spread, uh, the.
Speaker:What I call the gospel of transit.
Speaker:It really is, um, as we mentioned earlier, it really is Uh, I don't
Speaker:want to use the word silver bullet, but I can't think of any other term.
Speaker:It's kind of like an anachronism from an older, an older era.
Speaker:Uh, but, uh, it really does solve so many of society's issues.
Speaker:And it is being buffeted right now, like I said, by so many areas.
Speaker:But coming out of this, you know, we're, we're coming out of it Phoenix like
Speaker:with all kinds of great ideas that these top leaders in this book talk about.
Speaker:So thank you for the opportunity to share a light on some of these best practices
Speaker:so that we can improve our society.
Speaker:I appreciate your guys' time.
Speaker:Thanks for the conversation.
Speaker:Thanks for listening to this special transit unplugged episode.
Speaker:We're back to regular programming next week.
Speaker:episode Paul recorded live and on location in Sacramento, talking with Sacramento
Speaker:regional transit CEO, Henry Lee, about his agency and everything that SAC RT is
Speaker:doing, which frankly is pretty amazing.
Speaker:We hope you've been enjoying these special episodes.
Speaker:We've been bringing you lately.
Speaker:And if you have ideas for other special episodes, Just send us an email.
Speaker:Email us that.
Speaker:info@transitunplugged.com and we'll take it from there.
Speaker:Trends and unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.
Speaker:At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.
Speaker:And a transit unplugged.
Speaker:We're passionate about telling those stories.
Speaker:So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.
