Achieving accessibility – Ron Brooks and Kristen Joyner on how to get us there

Paul Comfort: 00:00:05

Ron Brooks lost his eyesight while he was playing

Paul Comfort: 00:00:07

a pickup basketball game with friends when he was 14 years old.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:11

Now as a 30 year veteran of the public transit industry, Ron is a

Paul Comfort: 00:00:14

sought after expert for his work to make public transportation more

Paul Comfort: 00:00:18

accessible and inclusive for everyone.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:20

And drawing on both his professional and lived experience, Ron

Paul Comfort: 00:00:23

teamed up with Kristen Joyner.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:25

One of the transit industry's foremost experts in the areas of event

Paul Comfort: 00:00:28

planning, marketing, and training to co author a brand new book, All

Paul Comfort: 00:00:32

Aboard, Conducting Accessible Community Involvement for Public Transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:37

And today I speak with both of them, Ron and Kristen, about the book

Paul Comfort: 00:00:41

and why it's important, why public transit agencies should focus on it.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:44

It's a great, look at what transit agencies need to be focused on

Paul Comfort: 00:00:48

in the middle of everything else.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:49

We need to make sure that the customers we serve, all of them, have

Paul Comfort: 00:00:53

access to our meetings as well as our service and to opportunities to

Paul Comfort: 00:00:58

speak up and have their voice heard.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:00

Ron Books is a graduate of Indiana University and a 30 year veteran

Paul Comfort: 00:01:04

of the public transit industry.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:06

He is the founder and CEO of Accessible Avenue and he is the Senior

Paul Comfort: 00:01:09

Director for Policy and Stakeholder Engagement for USERV, a transportation

Paul Comfort: 00:01:14

network company adapted to meet the needs of people with disabilities.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:18

Kristen Joyner is the founder of KJ Backpack LLC and a 35 year veteran of

Paul Comfort: 00:01:22

the public transit industry who leads with creativity, energy, and enthusiasm.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:27

And you'll hear and see all of that on display in today's episode of Transit

Paul Comfort: 00:01:32

Unplugged as we talk with both of the authors about their brand new book

Paul Comfort: 00:01:41

So happy to have on our podcast today, two of my good friends, Ron Brooks and Kristen

Paul Comfort: 00:01:45

Joyner who have recently written a book called All Aboard, Conducting Accessible

Paul Comfort: 00:01:51

Community Involvement for Public Transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:53

Thank you both for being on the show today.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:54

Talk about it.

Ron Brooks: 00:01:55

Thank you.

Kristen Joyner: 00:01:56

Thank you, Paul.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:57

We were all together just recently at the APTA conference,

Paul Comfort: 00:02:00

Transforming Anaheim, and I know you all did a book signing there.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:03

That's always fun to do that, and, uh, very excited for you, my friend,

Paul Comfort: 00:02:06

Ron, to have this first book out.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:07

Tell me some about the book and, why did you write it?

Ron Brooks: 00:02:10

Well, I have spent my entire career, 30 years, involved in public

Ron Brooks: 00:02:17

involvement in one way or another, and I've spent my entire life as an adult

Ron Brooks: 00:02:23

involved in the disability community, so I've really sat on both sides of what I

Ron Brooks: 00:02:28

would consider the community involvement table as it relates to people with

Ron Brooks: 00:02:32

disabilities, and a couple of things that I, that I know just from that experience.

Ron Brooks: 00:02:38

One is that just about everybody in the public transit industry wants to

Ron Brooks: 00:02:42

engage with the disability community.

Ron Brooks: 00:02:46

They want to get feedback from the community.

Ron Brooks: 00:02:50

they want to hear what the community's needs are and they

Ron Brooks: 00:02:53

want to do the right thing.

Ron Brooks: 00:02:54

I also have experienced from the community's perspective that

Ron Brooks: 00:02:58

sometimes it doesn't work right.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:00

Either because the folks who represent the agency or the

Ron Brooks: 00:03:06

agency's provider isn't hearing what the community is trying to say.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:11

Maybe the right people aren't at the table, or sometimes the process

Ron Brooks: 00:03:14

itself isn't as accessible or as inclusive as it needs to be.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:19

So I really wanted to write this book initially because I wanted to help the

Ron Brooks: 00:03:26

industry do a better job at designing community involvement processes that

Ron Brooks: 00:03:33

reach the right people, that land right for the community, so that the

Ron Brooks: 00:03:37

community feels welcome and heard.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:40

and that are accessible, that really address the needs of the people

Ron Brooks: 00:03:43

that we're trying to connect with.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:45

Because I personally believe, and I think we as an industry believe, that we

Ron Brooks: 00:03:50

are better when we hear and incorporate the voices of the people that we serve.

Ron Brooks: 00:03:55

So to me, this book was really just a way to bring the sides of this

Ron Brooks: 00:04:00

conversation together so that we can have that dialogue and have that

Ron Brooks: 00:04:04

relationship that that really gets us to where we want to be anyway.

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:09

this book actually comes on the heels of a project that

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:12

Ron and I did about 10 years ago for Southwest Transit Association.

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:16

It was a guidebook for transit associations, and and how they put

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:21

together their association meetings.

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:24

So it started with a little booklet, a little guidance, but we have learned

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:29

over time that there are processes that can be so much better, if you

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:35

listen to all the voices involved.

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:38

And, that was really important to us to focus on particularly

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:42

people with disabilities.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:43

So Kristen, is this book then designed for transit agencies who

Paul Comfort: 00:04:47

want to have public meetings but they want to make sure that people with

Paul Comfort: 00:04:50

disabilities have full accessibility?

Paul Comfort: 00:04:52

Is that, is that what it is?

Paul Comfort: 00:04:53

It's an actual real guide?

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:55

Yes, it, it is a true practical guide and the,

Kristen Joyner: 00:04:59

the nice thing about it is while it's not, Checklists, you know, we

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:02

don't want to focus on checklists.

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:04

We want to, it does have very practical step by step, how, how do you do your

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:11

outreach so that you're more inclusive?

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:13

And, what do you need to have on site?

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:16

It's things that, that when you read the book, you go, Oh

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:20

yeah, that makes total sense.

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:22

But we fail to stop and not only think about it ourselves,

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:26

but we fail to ask others.

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:28

Okay, if you, if you are unable to see, a presentation screen, or you're unable

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:35

to sit in a very crowded room with a lot of noise, it's very distracting

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:39

to you, what can we do to make this situation better so that we can hear

Kristen Joyner: 00:05:46

your voice and hear what your needs are?

Paul Comfort: 00:05:48

Ron, I remember when I was, at WMATA, Washington Metro, with

Paul Comfort: 00:05:52

Christian Kent, was the head of, was the, associate administrator at the time, and

Paul Comfort: 00:05:55

I was working for a contractor running the day to day services, but twice a

Paul Comfort: 00:05:59

month, I would go to public meetings, rider's advisory meetings, where the

Paul Comfort: 00:06:04

people who rode our service, and this was an ADA accessible service, that's what

Paul Comfort: 00:06:08

we were running, I wasn't responsible for day to day fixed route, I was

Paul Comfort: 00:06:10

responsible for day to day paratransit.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:12

is that who this book is for?

Paul Comfort: 00:06:14

People who are running day to day paratransit to make sure that when

Paul Comfort: 00:06:16

they, and fixed route, to make sure they can hear from people who need it?

Paul Comfort: 00:06:20

Is that the problem we're trying to solve?

Ron Brooks: 00:06:22

I think that's part of the challenge that

Ron Brooks: 00:06:24

this book is there to solve.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:25

And I think that people who are providing accessible transit and

Ron Brooks: 00:06:31

paratransit services are part of the audience for this book.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:35

But I think it's actually a little bit broader than that.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:38

Okay.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:39

In fact The thing that really made me think about

Ron Brooks: 00:06:41

this book was not my work in accessible transit and paratransit.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:46

it was actually the work that I've done with a lot of projects when I was working

Ron Brooks: 00:06:51

a few years ago for a transit agency.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:54

Actually it was Valley Metro out in the Phoenix metro area here where I live.

Ron Brooks: 00:06:58

And we were doing a lot of rail expansion at the time.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:02

We were designing, projects which are actually still being built.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:06

some of them have come online since then, but as part of every capital project,

Ron Brooks: 00:07:11

there are public engagement requirements.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:15

yeah, there's, there's reviews, you know, to figure out the alignment of

Ron Brooks: 00:07:19

the project, impacts on neighborhoods, there's reviews at different

Ron Brooks: 00:07:23

stages in the design process.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:26

You know, all sorts of engagement with the community, and we spent a lot of

Ron Brooks: 00:07:30

effort trying to figure out how to make those processes more accessible for

Ron Brooks: 00:07:36

the community that we were serving.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:38

there's also the work that we do around service planning.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:42

When we need to change our routes or restructure our services, there's

Ron Brooks: 00:07:47

public engagement requirements.

Ron Brooks: 00:07:49

As part of that work, and even if there's not a public engagement requirement,

Ron Brooks: 00:07:53

there's a public engagement need, and making sure that we're hearing from

Ron Brooks: 00:07:57

the entire public as part of that process makes that process work better.

Ron Brooks: 00:08:02

It also makes it a little easier when we get to our board, because

Ron Brooks: 00:08:06

there's a better chance that we'll have better community buy in.

Ron Brooks: 00:08:10

So, I was thinking about that, I was thinking about the work

Ron Brooks: 00:08:14

that I've done with advisory committees like you talked about.

Ron Brooks: 00:08:17

I was thinking about board meetings because I've certainly spent time in

Ron Brooks: 00:08:21

board meetings where the community is not very happy and, you know, or they

Ron Brooks: 00:08:26

don't feel like they're being heard.

Ron Brooks: 00:08:27

And so I would say the audience for this book is broad.

Ron Brooks: 00:08:30

It's anybody who is involved in public engagement work, working with supporting

Ron Brooks: 00:08:35

boards and committees, service planning, capital planning, accessibility, you know,

Ron Brooks: 00:08:41

all of those, all of those folks need to have some engagement with the public.

Kristen Joyner: 00:08:46

And Paul, I, have talked to several transit agencies, rural transit

Kristen Joyner: 00:08:51

agencies, who have been in business 20, 30 years, and, every week, they get

Kristen Joyner: 00:08:56

calls saying, do you provide transit service for people with a disability?

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:01

and, and so part of this also, the outreach, Continues to keep transit

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:06

in a community top of mind with CCAM and, things that are coming on board

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:12

for more community involvement and more cross sectional involvement.

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:18

it's going to be important that we are engaging with all of the partners in

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:23

the community so that, so that transit story can be told and so that we're

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:28

doing a better job of partnering.

Kristen Joyner: 00:09:29

I think that's a piece of this as well.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:31

One last audience.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:33

as our industry, because one of the areas that we're focused on is, is being more,

Ron Brooks: 00:09:39

inclusive in our employment practices.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:41

As we engage and, and hire and bring in more people with disabilities

Ron Brooks: 00:09:46

into our industry, those people are going to need to go to trainings.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:50

They're going to, they're going to be going to events like APTA and SWATA and

Ron Brooks: 00:09:54

state association meetings and events.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:56

And a lot of this book.

Ron Brooks: 00:09:59

is, talks about events, not just meetings, but conferences and how do

Ron Brooks: 00:10:04

you make meal functions more accessible?

Ron Brooks: 00:10:07

And that's all based on my experience and work that we've been doing

Ron Brooks: 00:10:11

within organizations like APTA and SWATA for years to try to

Ron Brooks: 00:10:16

address those kinds of challenges.

Ron Brooks: 00:10:18

And, uh, so I think there's a little bit for everything here.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:25

Hey, sorry to interrupt the show, but I know if you're listening to

Paul Comfort: 00:10:27

this podcast, you'd be interested in this.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:30

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Paul Comfort: 00:10:32

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Paul Comfort: 00:10:37

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we're doing behind the scenes and be really a part of our community

Paul Comfort: 00:11:06

obviously in the book you describe different types of disabilities, right,

Paul Comfort: 00:11:11

and may not be just visual, it may not be just somebody in a wheelchair,

Paul Comfort: 00:11:14

there's all kinds of disabilities.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:16

Can you explain why that's important as it relates to community outreach?

Ron Brooks: 00:11:20

And yeah, first off, and I do want to just acknowledge, we had a

Ron Brooks: 00:11:23

couple of contributing authors, as well, and, and if you find out of the book,

Ron Brooks: 00:11:28

these people, we brought in folks who have really strong disability experience

Ron Brooks: 00:11:33

in the disability community, not maybe in transit, but just in general, because

Ron Brooks: 00:11:38

we wanted to get the details right, First off, 25 percent of Americans have some

Ron Brooks: 00:11:42

sort of a disability, but the number's actually probably a little higher than

Ron Brooks: 00:11:46

that because a lot of people, as they get older, they have health conditions, that,

Ron Brooks: 00:11:51

that really are similar to disability.

Ron Brooks: 00:11:54

For example, by the time you're in your sixties, 30 percent of us have

Ron Brooks: 00:11:58

hearing impairments that, that count as hearing impairments, but we may not

Ron Brooks: 00:12:02

think of ourselves as being disabled.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:05

We just don't hear as well as we used to.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:07

What we wanted to do.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:09

was to make sure we captured all of the kinds of, challenges that people

Ron Brooks: 00:12:14

face and the different ways that people engage with the environment, because

Ron Brooks: 00:12:18

it isn't just one size fits all.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:20

There's things that, that we can do that support people with all sorts of

Ron Brooks: 00:12:25

different communication styles, with all sorts of different abilities as it

Ron Brooks: 00:12:29

relates to, you know, the things you think about, hearing, seeing, walking, etc.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:35

Transcribed But also people with different types of, of styles of

Ron Brooks: 00:12:38

learning, people with different, types of neurodiversity, you know, where do

Ron Brooks: 00:12:42

people land in terms of, you know, how they communicate, how they learn, how

Ron Brooks: 00:12:46

they listen, how they process information.

Ron Brooks: 00:12:49

We really tried to catch all that.

Kristen Joyner: 00:12:51

specifically, the chapter in the book that deals with

Kristen Joyner: 00:12:53

that, it's called Implications of Disabilities for Community Engagement.

Kristen Joyner: 00:12:58

So it goes into, specifics of deafness and hearing loss, intellectual

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:03

disabilities, mental health, autism, like, Ron said neurodivergence.

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:08

It explains what those are, but then it gives very specific bullet points

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:13

about, how, how or why someone with a particular disability might miss

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:18

a direction and how, someone in the transit space can help connect the

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:24

dots and help them understand better.

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:26

So it's very specific like that.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:28

You also have some chapters focused on in person and virtual

Paul Comfort: 00:13:32

meetings, which we do a lot of these days.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:35

Can you talk about two or three things that a transit agency or any organization

Paul Comfort: 00:13:38

can do, you know, to make those spaces work well for people with disabilities?

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:42

Yeah, I'm going to pick up on that one first, because

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:44

it's one of my favorites, that we have several examples in there.

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:47

Everything from how you set up the room, leaving space for someone, who

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:53

might be in a wheelchair, but not just put them at the back of the room,

Kristen Joyner: 00:13:56

have spaces throughout the room, the, but here's one of my favorites, Paul,

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:00

and you're going to really love this.

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:02

you always have the person in the meeting that wants to comment, and,

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:08

they holler from the back of the room, You can hear me from back here, right?

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:14

My voice is loud enough, isn't it?

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:16

And everybody is thinking, well, yeah, but it's really annoying.

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:20

So, a simple fix is to make certain that everybody has access to a microphone.

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:26

And, which means you might, You might need to have a runner in the room that takes

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:30

a microphone to someone, and then you have microphones on stands, but not just

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:35

high up, but you have a low microphone for someone who's sitting in a wheelchair

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:40

that wants to roll up to a microphone.

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:43

And then other simple things might just be the font style that you choose.

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:49

if, if there is someone with, with low vision and you have a lot of graphs

Kristen Joyner: 00:14:55

and charts in your presentation, you need to take the time to

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:00

stop and say, on the screen is.

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:03

a chart showing our, increased ridership in this particular neighborhood

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:09

and, or, or increased population of people who speak a particular

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:14

language in this neighborhood.

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:16

And then explain even further what that looks like.

Kristen Joyner: 00:15:20

So, it's taking the time to be respectful of everyone in the room.

Ron Brooks: 00:15:25

And I'll just I want to touch on one other for the meetings and then

Ron Brooks: 00:15:29

talk about virtual, which, as you pointed out, we're doing quite a bit of in one of

Ron Brooks: 00:15:34

the things that we learned and I learned this at Valley Metro when we were doing

Ron Brooks: 00:15:38

a bunch of meetings with the community is Is things like speaker cards and

Ron Brooks: 00:15:45

knowing where to go in a meeting to make a presentation or to talk to the board

Ron Brooks: 00:15:49

or whoever the audience was, was, was a barrier for people to participate and

Ron Brooks: 00:15:55

just by having a couple of staff members in the room who could provide assistance,

Ron Brooks: 00:16:00

whether it was filling out a speaker card or grabbing a cookie for somebody.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:04

So they didn't feel left out of the of the refreshments.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:07

Made a big difference.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:09

In terms of virtual, a couple of things people don't realize is that there is

Ron Brooks: 00:16:14

currently not a single, platform that's currently available in the market that

Ron Brooks: 00:16:20

makes the screen sharing accessible for somebody using a screen reader.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:25

So, if, If you are presenting a, you know, you're sharing your screen in

Ron Brooks: 00:16:30

a meeting, people who use assistive technology do not have that information.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:35

And there's a couple of fairly easy things you can do to make it more accessible.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:39

You can send a presentation out in advance.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:42

assuming that it's been created to be accessible.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:45

or you can just describe the presentation as you're presenting it.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:49

And it's little things like that that make virtual meetings more accessible.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:54

There's other things like giving people a break every 45 minutes to an hour.

Ron Brooks: 00:16:59

you know, those Those meetings can be long for all of us, but if you

Ron Brooks: 00:17:04

have a disability that, makes it hard to pay attention for more than an

Ron Brooks: 00:17:08

hour, they're, they're excruciating.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:10

Or, if you're like me and you just want to get up and walk

Ron Brooks: 00:17:13

around for a minute, you can focus better in shorter blocks of time.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:17

So, it's little things like that that can make those meetings work

Ron Brooks: 00:17:22

a lot better for a lot more people.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:24

when, when you build a comprehensive and accessible public

Paul Comfort: 00:17:27

engagement plan, what should be the real goal for a transit agency?

Ron Brooks: 00:17:30

I would say that the first and ultimate goal is to hear and to

Ron Brooks: 00:17:36

make sure that we're getting all of the voices of the people that we serve.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:40

We know that we make better products and we deliver better services when

Ron Brooks: 00:17:46

we hear and incorporate the voices of the people that we're serving.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:49

I mean, we know that.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:51

So, the only goal is how do we hear and engage those voices.

Ron Brooks: 00:17:57

And I think ultimately, another goal is is to really bring more

Ron Brooks: 00:18:01

people into, to our workforce.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:04

we, we have, you know, as you know, we have ongoing chronic

Ron Brooks: 00:18:09

and epic labor shortages.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:11

We've got a population that, that if we can engage them, they're interested.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:16

they, they will get more involved and, and as they get more involved,

Ron Brooks: 00:18:21

they're going to become more and more a part of the solution.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:23

And I think that engaging the public really is a first

Ron Brooks: 00:18:26

step to making that happen.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:28

For There's one other thing I'd like for people to learn from this book.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:32

And that is that the book has a lot of suggestions in it.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:36

Most of them are easy.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:38

A lot of them cost absolutely no money at all.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:41

Some of them cost a little bit of money.

Ron Brooks: 00:18:44

very few of them are expensive, and these are things that, just through careful

Ron Brooks: 00:18:49

planning and just thinking ahead, are pretty easy to do, and you can get a

Ron Brooks: 00:18:55

lot of value for a little bit of effort, and we also know, curb cut being a great

Ron Brooks: 00:19:03

example, that when we design the stuff we do, to be accessible for disabilities.

Ron Brooks: 00:19:11

The rest of the population also benefits.

Ron Brooks: 00:19:14

And so to me, this is really just a lot of easy stuff that you may not have thought

Ron Brooks: 00:19:20

about that will make your engagement processes work better across the board.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:25

You know, Paul, we, Ron and I, as we've talked about

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:28

the book, there are three truly main points that, that we want to make.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:33

And one is that accessible community involvement benefits everyone.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:37

He just gave you, an example of universal design and curb cuts.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:42

we believe that accessible community involvement, it should be practical.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:46

and it is practical.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:48

It's relatively easy to do.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:50

It doesn't need to be expensive or time consuming.

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:53

And I think that we've given some good examples here, like change the

Kristen Joyner: 00:19:57

font, or, or provide a microphone or provide, assistance in some way.

Kristen Joyner: 00:20:03

Then the final one is Accessible Community Involvement leads to better service

Kristen Joyner: 00:20:08

outcomes and stronger community support.

Kristen Joyner: 00:20:11

that really encapsulates.

Kristen Joyner: 00:20:13

That's what this book is about.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:15

I also want to mention the names of your contributors, Ron,

Paul Comfort: 00:20:18

that you had mentioned, that helps you.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:20

Mary Liz McNamara, Michelle Whitman, and a foreword by April Ray, who

Paul Comfort: 00:20:24

is the CEO of the Conference of Minority Transportation Officials.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:27

Great job in getting some big names to help you with the book.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:30

Yeah.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:31

And I just want to underscore.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:32

score, Mary Liz and Michelle are, experts in their own field.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:37

they've done some trainings in our industry around, disability,

Ron Brooks: 00:20:39

cultural awareness and inclusion.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:42

and, and we really brought them in for that kind of academic

Ron Brooks: 00:20:46

understanding of disability.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:48

That was a little bit broader, than what, than what we typically have in the

Ron Brooks: 00:20:51

industry, so that was really helpful.

Ron Brooks: 00:20:53

And of course, April, I can't say enough about the work that COMTO is

Ron Brooks: 00:20:57

already doing, to be more inclusive, and more accessible for everyone.

Ron Brooks: 00:21:02

And it's, it's a model that, I would like to see all of us really pay attention

Ron Brooks: 00:21:06

to and follow as we move forward.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:09

do you mind if I share one quote from April's?

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:12

Yeah.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:13

so, this is something that April Wray wrote, as, as part of the forward.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:18

She says, please hear this, wanting to do better, is a commendable start.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:24

Acknowledging that the biggest room is the room for improvement

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:28

puts us on a path to doing better.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:30

In the world of community engagement, listening is a highly prized skill.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:35

Considering varied perspectives offers fuller context and fuels idea innovation.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:42

I really love that she, that she said, you know, we, we all want to

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:48

do better, we, and, and starting is great, but it's finishing well.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:53

The ADA itself is the floor, it is not the ceiling.

Kristen Joyner: 00:21:57

And the ideas in this book, that are in this book that we're putting forward.

Kristen Joyner: 00:22:02

They're the floor, they're not the ceiling.

Kristen Joyner: 00:22:03

That's why we don't want it to be viewed as just a checklist.

Kristen Joyner: 00:22:07

We want it to be viewed as a start for, for real improvement.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:12

That's wonderful.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:13

And as transit agencies have Made an extra effort to be more inclusive.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:17

This gives them a guide and a tool to make sure that their meetings, that their

Paul Comfort: 00:22:21

public events, and all engagement is made in a way which, just like your title

Paul Comfort: 00:22:26

says, so that everyone can get all aboard.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:28

I love that title!

Paul Comfort: 00:22:29

Conducting Accessible Community Involvement for Public Transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:32

It is available on Amazon, and wherever you do get the book, I'd encourage you

Paul Comfort: 00:22:36

to read it and then review it, give them a review that helps, with the

Paul Comfort: 00:22:40

algorithms and give them a good five star review and make a nice comment about

Paul Comfort: 00:22:43

the book and about the great authors.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:45

And that'll help us spread the word, right, Ron?

Ron Brooks: 00:22:48

Oh yeah, we definitely appreciate that and, and, you know, we,

Ron Brooks: 00:22:51

we definitely want to get the word out and, yeah, that, that's a great start.

Kristen Joyner: 00:22:55

Yeah, it's available on Kindle and we are getting ready

Kristen Joyner: 00:22:58

to get it recorded so it will be available as an audible book.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:02

Oh, that's great.

Kristen Joyner: 00:23:03

and Ron is working on a braille version as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:07

Wonderful, wonderful.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:08

Well, both of you, Kristen and Ron, thank you so much for being our

Paul Comfort: 00:23:10

guest today on Transit Unplugged.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:12

This truly is, I think, a key part of what we're doing as an industry, making

Paul Comfort: 00:23:16

sure that everyone can get all aboard.

Ron Brooks: 00:23:18

Thank you.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:24

Thank you to Ron Brooks and Kristin joiner for

Tris Hussey: 00:23:26

being guests on the show today.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:29

I'm Tris Hussey editorof the podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:31

And coming up next week, we kick off season eight.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:35

As always, we make the season premier something special.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:37

So we've.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:38

We've brought you a CEO round table with TFL's andy Lord.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:43

Dottie Watkins of CapMetro.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:45

Dwight.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:45

Ferrell of SMART in Detroit.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:47

Sean Donaghy of North County Transit and Adam Leishman of

Tris Hussey: 00:23:51

a Ascendal Group in Hong Kong.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:53

We know, you'll enjoy this.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:55

Compelling discussion about the present and future of public transportation.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:59

Around the world.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:00

Transit unplugged is brought to.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:02

You buy Modaxo at Modaxo we're passionate about moving the world's people.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:06

And it turns it unplugged.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:08

We're passionate about telling those stories.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:10

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy..