Episode 48
Getting Boston’s Transit Down to a T: Conversation with MBTA’s COO Ryan Coholan
On this episode of Transit Unplugged, host Paul Comfort sits down with Ryan Coholan, the Chief Operating Officer of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority (MBTA or The T) in Boston.
Ever heard of a COO who drives his own train to work? Ryan is one of a few (only?) COOs who has kept up his Locomotive Engineer's License and regularly drives the train from his home in the suburbs into Boston. Ryan likes to stay connected with the work he's responsible for, not to mention when the COO calls and says there's an issue on a stretch of track, it gets fixed.
With nearly 30 years of transit experience, Ryan talks about running one of America's largest transit systems and shares stories of MBTA's recent wins, like ending speed restrictions on rail lines, introducing contactless fares, and even getting chatbot support. Paul and Ryan also dive into some serious business – like getting agreements in place with all their labor unions for the first time in 15 years.
Paul and Ryan wrap up their conversation with some electrifying news (literally) about The T's move towards battery electric trains. Ryan's got big plans to make it all happen and leveraging as much existing infrastructure as possible. This is a ride you won't want to miss!
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- Host: Paul Comfort
- Producer: Paul Comfort
- Editor and Writer: Tris Hussey
- Executive Producer: Julie Gates
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- Social Media: Tatyana Mechkarova
- Marketing content, Transit Unplugged Newsletter, & transit puns: Tris Hussey
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00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:24 Ryan's Journey to Work
02:22 Overview of MBTA and Its Unique Structure
06:51 Role and Responsibilities of the COO
09:25 Financial Health and Strategic Investments
12:22 Speed Restrictions and Infrastructure Improvements
20:05 Innovations in Customer Experience
23:38 Labor Agreements and Workforce Relations
25:23 Commuter Rail Developments and Electrification
30:45 Conclusion and Vision for the Future
31:57 Coming up next week on Transit Unplugged
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Modaxo Inc., its affiliates or subsidiaries, or any entities they represent (“Modaxo”). This production belongs to Modaxo, and may contain information that may be subject to trademark, copyright, or other intellectual property rights and restrictions. This production provides general information, and should not be relied on as legal advice or opinion. Modaxo specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, and will not be liable for any losses, claims, or damages arising from the use of this presentation, from any material contained in it, or from any action or decision taken in response to it.
Transcript
Hi, I'm Paul Comfort.
Speaker:This is Transit Unplugged, the world's leading transit executive podcast.
Speaker:Today, I'm excited to have with us as our guest, Ryan Coholan.
Speaker:He is the Chief Operating Officer of MBTA, the Massachusetts Bay
Speaker:Transportation Authority in Boston.
Speaker:Ryan brings three decades of transportation experience to the
Speaker:role of Chief Operating Officer.
Speaker:In this position, which he has held now for one year, he is responsible for
Speaker:the safe and efficient daily operation of all MBTA modes of transportation.
Speaker:The subway, commuter rail, bus, ferry, and paratransit, and more.
Speaker:It's the fifth largest transit system in America.
Speaker:Previously, Ryan served as the MBTA's Chief Railroad Officer.
Speaker:Directing, planning, and supervising this large commuter
Speaker:rail system for nearly 10 years.
Speaker:On today's episode, we dive into some great new, achievements that
Speaker:they're accomplishing there, including removing speed restrictions on their
Speaker:heavy rail and light rail systems.
Speaker:A great job they're doing there.
Speaker:We'll dig into that.
Speaker:Also moving to contactless fares, chatbot, the first labor agreements
Speaker:with all their unions in 15 years.
Speaker:We talk about their ferry service and the expansion of commuter rail to include,
Speaker:battery electric trains coming there in cooperation with Keolis, their contractor.
Speaker:So much.
Speaker:But we start off with the fact of how Ryan got to work today.
Speaker:You're not going to believe it.
Speaker:Take a listen.
Speaker:So Ryan, how'd you get to work today?
Speaker:So, I took a train in from from Kingston, Massachusetts right into Boston.
Speaker:And, I'm very proud of the fact that I do so.
Speaker:I drove my train in this morning.
Speaker:You drove your train to work.
Speaker:Absolutely
Speaker:I don't know many other COOs across transportation that still maintain
Speaker:their locomotive engineer's license.
Speaker:. And you know, that, that forces me to stay in touch with what's, what
Speaker:the pulse is, what's really going on.
Speaker:And then when I get to my desk and I think back to some maybe some
Speaker:vegetation near an interlocking that made a signal a little tough to see.
Speaker:When I pick up the phone and say, hey, this needs to be dealt with you know,
Speaker:the engineering folks typically react.
Speaker:Ryan, thanks for being on the show, my friend.
Speaker:Thanks so much, Paul.
Speaker:Great to be here.
Speaker:Yeah, I love talking to COOs, man.
Speaker:You guys, you're the ones that make this show run every day, man.
Speaker:I often say I'm the person behind the curtain that sort of makes
Speaker:the show come together, right?
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:Yeah, let's start off talking about, you know, MBTA some itself and,
Speaker:and then we'll get into your role.
Speaker:Kind of talk to us about the agency because one of the unique things
Speaker:about MBTA is that you have more modes, I think, than almost any other
Speaker:major transit system in the country.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it has to do geographically
Speaker:just where we're located, right?
Speaker:We're bordered by water.
Speaker:so the MBTA operates light rail, heavy rail, commuter rail,
Speaker:paratransit, bus operations, of course, and water transportation.
Speaker:you know, which is somewhat unique, but given the location, you know, I think
Speaker:we're really proud of how, how water transportation can impact a region.
Speaker:You know, and I think that right now, if you want to look at the
Speaker:mode that has the most attractive future, right, the most interesting
Speaker:future, let's see where it can go.
Speaker:I think water transportation is certainly that.
Speaker:I can't build more rail lines, we can't build more highways, right, but the water,
Speaker:it's there, and it's available, it's accessible, and really where Boston is
Speaker:situated, I think that there's a lot of, a lot of cities that we can connect with.
Speaker:Yeah, so tell me about, that's amazing, and I want to dive into
Speaker:all that in a minute, but I think it's also important for people to
Speaker:understand the structure of the agency.
Speaker:there's an old saying, if you've seen one transit system, you've seen one
Speaker:transit system, because every agency is so different based on its history, MBTA
Speaker:is an actual state agency, it's not like a standalone authority, maybe like WMATA or
Speaker:SEPTA, where I'm at today in Philadelphia.
Speaker:So, tell us about the structure of MBTA, how it works as a state agency.
Speaker:Sure, so the MBTA rolls up into the greater Massachusetts
Speaker:Department of Transportation, right?
Speaker:Of course, MassDOT oversees highways, aeronautics, they have their own
Speaker:rail and transit division, all of the, the regional transportation
Speaker:authorities, local bus operations.
Speaker:So that's all rolled into the, the MassDOT.
Speaker:MBTA stands alone as sort of its own.
Speaker:It's own agency within a much bigger agency, right?
Speaker:You know, we have our own, board of directors, in the, but there's also a
Speaker:joint MassDOT board of directors as well.
Speaker:you know, so we, we touch a lot of parts of state government.
Speaker:there's a lot of, a lot of dedicated passive communication both ways up
Speaker:and down through state government.
Speaker:and look, state government can be cumbersome.
Speaker:We've all, we've all lived that world of boy is this challenging to figure out.
Speaker:I think from where the MBTA sits It gives us great access to really what
Speaker:are the hot topics, what's the overall situation of the Commonwealth, right?
Speaker:It allows us, and I think that, I mean, look, Paul, obviously,
Speaker:you come from transportation.
Speaker:Public transportation is a world that we can get so rabbit holed,
Speaker:we get focused on our bubble.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The structure we have here, it forces us to hear what's going on across
Speaker:the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Speaker:So if, if we can be part of a discussion, let's say with any
Speaker:economic development, group, you know, local governments, we have that.
Speaker:That insight based on where we sit within the State Government.
Speaker:So I think it's very helpful.
Speaker:when I was at the Maryland Transit Administration, it
Speaker:was similarly structured.
Speaker:We rolled up to the State Department of Transportation.
Speaker:And while America, really a lot of the agencies our standalone
Speaker:authorities completely kind of quasi-governmental agencies.
Speaker:There are a number on the East coast, the Northeast coast, like
Speaker:NJT, CT Transit in Connecticut, MBTA, Maryland, us and even, in Delaware.
Speaker:John Sisson my friend that runs Delaware Transit, these are state agencies, and
Speaker:so they have a whole different portfolio.
Speaker:And what you mentioned, I think the inner modality of an agency
Speaker:like MBTA, like when I was at MTA.
Speaker:We got a lot of our funding from the Maryland Transportation Trust Fund,
Speaker:which received its funds from Motor Vehicle Administration, you know, from
Speaker:all these things that we had, and I had a light rail system that went to the
Speaker:airport, so Ricky, the guy who ran BWI Airport, you know, he's like, Paul, it's
Speaker:critical you keep that running to the airport because I need my employees.
Speaker:There's all this intermodality, this interconnection that I think being a
Speaker:state agency gives you, like you said, those connections that are important.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:You know, the level of insight, you know, we have a close
Speaker:relationship with, Massport.
Speaker:Oh yeah, where Rich Davey just went.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Welcome back to Boston, Rich.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, but those are the connections that are important, right?
Speaker:We all, we all exist.
Speaker:You know, for one reason, that's to move people.
Speaker:It's to connect people.
Speaker:So, those walls not being in existence at that state top level allows us to just
Speaker:communicate openly, freely, and solve the problem of how to best move people.
Speaker:So let's talk about your role there, Chief Operating Officer.
Speaker:what's your day to day responsibilities?
Speaker:Sure, so, in my role, I'm responsible for the operation of all the
Speaker:modes that we operate, right?
Speaker:I talked about light rail, heavy rail, commuter rail, bus operations, paratransit
Speaker:operations, water operations, but also all of the, all of the other, Departments
Speaker:that make all of that happen, so maintenance of way, vehicle maintenance,
Speaker:our operations control center, operations training, right, a big component of it.
Speaker:So all of those other, other, other parts all roll up into my office, you
Speaker:know, it's, it's, it's a lot, it's a lot, and it's, it's the type of job.
Speaker:That, you know, the days are early, they start early, they start
Speaker:unpredictably early sometimes.
Speaker:you know, and some days you're home and some days you're tied up, but, you
Speaker:know, it's, I think it's that, it's that controlled chaos that we all appreciate
Speaker:in public transportation, right?
Speaker:There's no, no two days are ever the same.
Speaker:And I think that that's, that's what draws me.
Speaker:You've been there a while at the agency, but your CEO is rather newer, Mr.
Speaker:Eng, Phil Eng.
Speaker:And he's really getting a great reputation, by the way, in the
Speaker:industry as a guy, a can do guy that's getting stuff done there.
Speaker:Must be great to work with a visionary like that.
Speaker:let's talk really, really honest here.
Speaker:I think, I think that Phil Eng is the reason why I, I decided
Speaker:this role would work for me.
Speaker:You know, knowing what I know about, about Phil, even prior to him coming to the
Speaker:MBTA, and in my previous role as Chief Railroad Officer, when I worked for Phil,
Speaker:when he came to the MBTA, quickly realize that this is a, this is an opportunity
Speaker:for the MBTA to reach that turning point and to write the next chapter.
Speaker:The next chapter is going to look really different.
Speaker:and it's exciting when you're, when you're in this business to have that perception
Speaker:that wait a minute, like we can fix this.
Speaker:when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you can see what's
Speaker:possible, you make the jump, and I'm so grateful I did, and I think
Speaker:it's evident, based on the level of leadership at the very top here at
Speaker:the MBTA, the direction we're headed.
Speaker:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker:We're, in a minute, we're going to, we're going to unpack some of the
Speaker:great new things you've got going on there, which I think are awesome, but
Speaker:one more kind of big picture question.
Speaker:How are you all doing financially?
Speaker:A lot of transit agencies, when the COVID money ran out, you know, they're having
Speaker:trouble, they call it the fistful cliff, but what's happening there at MBTA?
Speaker:Well, I think like so many agencies, right, we have to be creative.
Speaker:We have to sometimes leave past practice and maybe that past practice was, you
Speaker:know, heavy reliance on third parties, outside consultants, and sometimes you
Speaker:can, as an agency, it's easy to get comfortable with that level of third party
Speaker:support, depending on where you come from in this business, maybe you, you say,
Speaker:yeah, it's cheap, cheaper to contract out, because when they're done, they're done.
Speaker:I, I think my experience of that is sometimes it's easier to control what
Speaker:you can't control directly using internal forces, internal folks, and, and really,
Speaker:it's never made sense to me to have some brilliant people who are, you know,
Speaker:stamped engineers hiring a consultant to bring a stamped engineer in, right?
Speaker:This just doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker:so every agency right now has to think outside the box.
Speaker:Get non traditional as far as how to control spends, because at the same
Speaker:time, right, and this is where there's always a, always a healthy conflict.
Speaker:We have to continue to get ridership back on the system, and not just
Speaker:here in Boston, every agency, right?
Speaker:and that's tough to do without spending money, right?
Speaker:The adage, you have to spend money to make money.
Speaker:I look at it as we have to invest, and investing is not always financial.
Speaker:And I think we'll talk more about how we've been investing in
Speaker:Boston really through partnerships and regaining the trust.
Speaker:And I think that once you demonstrate, on a city level, a state government
Speaker:level, that we can handle it.
Speaker:We're up to the task of fixing this.
Speaker:We're up to the challenge of bringing new ridership into the system.
Speaker:I think that's when the people that feed financial resources into
Speaker:an agency, once they realize that you're going to do what's best for
Speaker:every dollar, and you're spending it wisely, and you're delivering results.
Speaker:That sets every agency up for success in getting more funding.
Speaker:You have to demonstrate that you can do good with the dollar, right?
Speaker:And actually show a return.
Speaker:That's what we're doing here in Boston now.
Speaker:And I'll tell you, it makes the conversations about, everyone talks
Speaker:about the fiscal cliff, right?
Speaker:But when you're delivering results and making the improvements like
Speaker:we're making here in Boston, those conversations come a little easier.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Ryan, as COO of the operation there, you oversee a lot of things.
Speaker:I know what it's like, you know, having run an agency and having my right
Speaker:hand guy, John Duncan, as my chief operating officer, somebody I could
Speaker:really trust to really get things done, but you've got your eye on the ball,
Speaker:I think, and the ball is the customer.
Speaker:And you're working to regain their trust.
Speaker:And you've recently done one or two things that I think are fantastic to
Speaker:regain passengers trust in the safety, efficiency, reliability, and world class
Speaker:customer service that MBTA wants to have.
Speaker:One of them is removing speed restrictions on rail, actually
Speaker:making the system more efficient.
Speaker:That's not sexy.
Speaker:It's not, you know, out front, but man, the amount of, track that you've replaced
Speaker:and the amount of, trash along the tracks.
Speaker:Oh, tell us some about that project and what's happening there, man.
Speaker:That was awesome.
Speaker:So, I mean, we, we find ourselves in a situation almost two years ago as
Speaker:an agency where, you know, commuter rail, we were rebuilding back,
Speaker:and, and, ridership wise, service performance wise was one story, and
Speaker:then when you get into the transit system, it was a very different story.
Speaker:And speed restrictions, they all of a sudden, that was a, that was a way of
Speaker:life for so many people who relied on the MBTA, and, you know, look, you have to
Speaker:remember that Lots of people that ride public transportation, some do it because
Speaker:they want to, some do it because it's convenient, some do it because they have
Speaker:to, because they have no other choice.
Speaker:And we need to remember that, you know, we're not just catering to the
Speaker:9 to 5, we're catering to the people.
Speaker:Who, you know, we play such a big part in their life, and it's on us to
Speaker:help folks live their best life, and transportation allows them to do that.
Speaker:So, when, when I stepped into the role of COO under Phil Lang this past
Speaker:September, so we're coming up on a year.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, we had our work cut out for us.
Speaker:I mean, we had speed restrictions on every single line, every direction.
Speaker:I think the, the top, the numbers topped out at 230, speed restrictions
Speaker:across all of the transit lines.
Speaker:you know, roughly, I think it was 27 percent of every transit line had a speed
Speaker:restriction ranging from, you know, 25 miles an hour down to three miles an hour.
Speaker:This is rail.
Speaker:This is all rail, yeah, combination of light rail and heavy rail.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:and we, you know, we had our own pandemic as far as speed research, right?
Speaker:you know, trip times were unacceptable.
Speaker:and, you know, we really, we, we had to dig in quickly
Speaker:and we had to develop a plan.
Speaker:And we spent the first, you know, six weeks of this new leadership
Speaker:team, you know, track charts out.
Speaker:you know, whiteboards loaded.
Speaker:How can we cure this?
Speaker:And how can we cure it, but still deliver?
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because as I mentioned, you know, we have to help people live their best life.
Speaker:so, we dug in.
Speaker:We had the uncomfortable conversations with, local government, you know,
Speaker:the mayor's office here in Boston.
Speaker:You know, they, they didn't want to hear that we were going to shut down, lines to,
Speaker:to rebuild them and put people on buses.
Speaker:However, you know, they weren't necessarily thrilled
Speaker:with where the system was at.
Speaker:They saw that it wasn't sustainable.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, what ended up coming out of a very uncomfortable conversation, I
Speaker:think, was a real partnership, because when you tell the City of Boston, we're
Speaker:going to introduce an additional 140 buses into downtown Boston to keep
Speaker:moving people while we're fixing track.
Speaker:Never something a city wants to hear, right?
Speaker:I mean, you've been through Boston, the streets are not accommodating.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:But, but nonetheless Built in the
Speaker:1600s and 1700s, yeah.
Speaker:Right, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But, the first diversion that we set up, we introduced the buses, but we came
Speaker:out of it, and now that 230 counts of speed restrictions, that number of 230,
Speaker:dropped off by 20, 22 speed restrictions.
Speaker:And all of a sudden people said, wait a minute, was that
Speaker:a fluke or was that planned?
Speaker:And, you know, we said, look, great results.
Speaker:We'll be back in two more weeks.
Speaker:We'll show you what's next.
Speaker:And, and we kept telling that story with every diversion.
Speaker:and now today, when we talk about, the MBTA's light and heavy rail services,
Speaker:as far as speed restrictions, you know, went down to, you know, 7 percent
Speaker:of, of track with speed restrictions.
Speaker:Oh, that is awesome, Ryan wow, what a, what a success story.
Speaker:You know, I was just in Vienna, Austria, meeting with their CEO of
Speaker:their transit system there, Wiener Lenien, and they've got a great motto.
Speaker:When they go in and do all these projects, And they have
Speaker:to disrupt traffic and do that.
Speaker:Their motto is, sorry, not sorry.
Speaker:Look, we're sorry we're disrupting your life, but we're not sorry
Speaker:because we're going to make your life so much better when this is done.
Speaker:And you don't have to wait that long.
Speaker:It's not going to be a two year project.
Speaker:You know, it's going to be a shorter.
Speaker:So, I love that because this is the kind of stuff that makes transit
Speaker:long term more attractive to people.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, you know, we, we have, we have a plan that takes us through the end of
Speaker:calendar year 24 to finish that last 7%.
Speaker:Now, and I think, I think, Paul, you, you just said it without saying it,
Speaker:historically, transit agencies, right, we, we run trains, we run buses, right, and I
Speaker:think maintenance windows, weren't always at the forefront, right, the priority
Speaker:was run the trains, run the trains.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:You know, in the commuter rail world, the Federal Railroad Administration
Speaker:sets, sets the bare minimums, right, so that part is tough to dispute, but when
Speaker:you, when you have the, the flexibility that you have in the, in the real world.
Speaker:You know, in the rail, rail transit world, sometimes it's easy to
Speaker:forget about what's important.
Speaker:And if you don't have tracks to run on, you're not going to run trains.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:So this is really a two phase mission here.
Speaker:Cure the speed restrictions, but we have to evolve as far as how we
Speaker:maintain our infrastructure, right?
Speaker:And that's balanced with the, the desire that I think ultimately, if you ask
Speaker:me in 10 years where the MBTA is going to be, it's going to be service that
Speaker:is close to, if not 24 hours a day.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I mean, today we have that period of overnight where that's
Speaker:what we have to maintain track.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we, we need to build our experience and our capabilities to maintain
Speaker:our infrastructure during service.
Speaker:Now, maybe it's obviously not during peak service.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But there are midday opportunities.
Speaker:There are overnight opportunities that will still allow us to maintain
Speaker:our infrastructure, make repairs, keep the track infrastructure at, at
Speaker:the state it needs to be, but that takes investment in your workforce.
Speaker:It takes investment in your, equipment.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's great to say I have a production gang, and commuter rail, I've had,
Speaker:I've had production work gangs for years, whether it's, you know, you
Speaker:set up a tie gang, a rail gang, you go in, you hammer the work out,
Speaker:and you come back 20 years later.
Speaker:you know, that doesn't, I've never seen that really exist in rail transit,
Speaker:but I think that we can find the balance between what has worked well,
Speaker:you know, in the FRA world, but it's, it's really about changing the mindset
Speaker:and remembering the dark days, right?
Speaker:If you live through the dark days, you know what you'd never want to do again.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:You know, when I was at MTA in Baltimore, not to keep going back, but
Speaker:you just made me think of something.
Speaker:I had a great chief engineer as my deputy.
Speaker:His name was Suheir Al Khatib.
Speaker:And, we had to do some real maintenance work.
Speaker:And it was either going to be death by a thousand cuts, right?
Speaker:Where it's four hours a night, every night, and then, you
Speaker:know, a few, a cut on weekends.
Speaker:Or we could do two and a half weeks of shutting it down, this
Speaker:route between here and there.
Speaker:And, I think it was, the light rail route, maybe.
Speaker:I can't remember which, which mode it was.
Speaker:And, I said, you know, man, let's just rip the Band Aid off and get it done.
Speaker:it takes so much work to ramp up the workforce, to get them out, to, you know,
Speaker:that you only end up having four hours a day to actually do the work anyway.
Speaker:Just shut it down.
Speaker:We'll do a bus bridge for two and a half weeks.
Speaker:And we told everybody about it.
Speaker:We explained it.
Speaker:And then we did it.
Speaker:We had, you know, we actually used school buses.
Speaker:We had to, because we didn't have enough buses in our fleet to do it, to do the
Speaker:bus bridge, you know, it was summertime.
Speaker:And I'm telling you, Ryan it was one of the best things we ever did.
Speaker:Just get it done.
Speaker:And then it was over, and we didn't have to come back and, you
Speaker:know, death by a thousand nicks.
Speaker:Yep, a thousand paper cuts still.
Speaker:Not much damage, believe me.
Speaker:You know, so it's really rethinking how we operate, how
Speaker:we maintain the infrastructure, and prioritizing maintenance.
Speaker:Yeah, Let me ask you about one or two other quick things where, I could talk
Speaker:to you for an hour, there's so many cool things you're doing there, but I
Speaker:love that you've gone to contactless fares and chatbot customer service.
Speaker:I just had the CEO of Detroit on, smart, Dwight, and he was telling me, Dwight
Speaker:Farrell, he was saying, Paul, I just did two weeks or a week, I forget, over
Speaker:in Paris and London, and I never took my credit card out of my wallet, I just
Speaker:touched my phone everywhere, and I said, I know, why can't we do that in transit?
Speaker:Boom, you're doing it, man.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, we, we just rolled out our contactless payment, on the, on the, on
Speaker:the buses, as well as, light rail, and, in station turnstiles, and, I'll tell ya,
Speaker:it, talk about stepping into, A whole new world of technology, and I can remember
Speaker:back when, you know, you used a token to ride the system, and look, that was
Speaker:a groundbreaking change to go away from the token, and at the, I think we did
Speaker:it probably at the same time that most agencies did, and we saw a lot of success.
Speaker:But, you know, I always talk about technology and how it affects
Speaker:transportation and transit.
Speaker:you know, we typically cure a technological gap with an influx of
Speaker:funding and then we come back 20 years later when the technology is outdated.
Speaker:you know, we've seen so many advancements in how people pay just going
Speaker:through their daily business, right?
Speaker:How do you pay for your cup of coffee?
Speaker:You know, you tap your phone, you tap your watch, you tap your card,
Speaker:and you move on with your day.
Speaker:Boston?
Speaker:It's a tourist destination, a great city, historic city, so we see
Speaker:a lot of people who maybe aren't familiar with riding transit.
Speaker:And, when you watch them arriving to a station, you know, we have people
Speaker:who are skilled at picking up on that sort of deer in headlights look of,
Speaker:I'm in the station, now what do I do?
Speaker:Alright, we've all seen this.
Speaker:So, by offering a contactless payment, again, you use your, you
Speaker:tapped your credit card to buy your coffee this morning, you can ride
Speaker:this system by doing the same thing.
Speaker:And you can do your phone there too, right?
Speaker:You can tap your phone, your spot watch.
Speaker:Your credit card, it's quick, I was part of the, the beta testing group, you know,
Speaker:that, that, from the time you tap your card to the time the gate opens, you know,
Speaker:it's a split second, it's a blink of the eye, and so we've equipped, you know, the
Speaker:stations, but also on board the vehicles themselves, so the buses, our green line
Speaker:and our MATAPAN high speed line on the light rail side, All those vehicles are
Speaker:equipped on board, because we have a lot of open stations, but when you, when
Speaker:you board the vehicle, same thing, tap your phone, tap your card, it's instant.
Speaker:Yeah, and now you've got a chat bot, right?
Speaker:So that if people have any questions, they, they don't have to wait to
Speaker:talk to a person, they can talk to a chat bot on your line, online?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:I think, you know, this is, this is an area where, you know, AI plays a role.
Speaker:And when you roll out new technology, right, you quickly learn what
Speaker:the most common questions are.
Speaker:you know, and I think that every transportation system, we cater
Speaker:to, all, all types of people.
Speaker:People who are very up to par with technology.
Speaker:And we also have people who, if they could still pay with a token, they would.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Because people are creatures of habit.
Speaker:and I think that AI chatbots Fill a void there.
Speaker:You know, you don't get lost in a 20 minute hold time to ask
Speaker:the same question that someone else has asked 15 times, right?
Speaker:So having that feature available gives immediate resolution
Speaker:to a question or a concern.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, it's something that I think, I think, You know, everyone's afraid
Speaker:of AI in transportation, I think, but there, there is a role for it.
Speaker:That's right, yeah.
Speaker:How we can best use it to serve our passengers.
Speaker:Two other quick areas, I wanted to just, you know, ping you on real quickly.
Speaker:One is to congratulate you.
Speaker:I understand you recently got, your labor agreements in place with all your
Speaker:unions, on time or whatever, for the first time in like 15 years or something?
Speaker:I read an article about that.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, so every, every MBTA, union that we work with in, You know, I think
Speaker:that our union relationships right now, as exemplified by the fact that we have,
Speaker:you know, signed agreements with all of our MBTA unions, those relationships,
Speaker:not only are they crucial to our joint success, because it's, it's not, it's
Speaker:not me or Phil that makes it happen.
Speaker:It's, it's our employees, right?
Speaker:It really is.
Speaker:So, I think that, we are at a good place, but I Every day, remind myself
Speaker:that we cannot let this fall into the foreground as we tackle the next issue.
Speaker:We need to remember where we're at now and learn from our day
Speaker:to day and our week to week.
Speaker:And as we rebuild the MBTA and as we rebuild how we operate, we need to
Speaker:keep in mind, because those contracts, alright, they're going to come back up.
Speaker:and the needs of the workforce are going to change, the needs of
Speaker:the agency are going to change.
Speaker:And really, in between, we have a very healthy dialogue with union leadership,
Speaker:because we are in, in this together.
Speaker:We really are.
Speaker:I, I remind, folks all the time.
Speaker:I could disappear tomorrow, it's not going to change how someone's commute was.
Speaker:so it's that open dialogue and that honesty between
Speaker:management, labor, and the unions.
Speaker:it all plays a big role, but, it's something we're really proud of, you know,
Speaker:to have all contract agreements signed.
Speaker:you know, it's, it's great.
Speaker:I think it's what's best for the employees and, therefore, the ridership, you know.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:last main point, and congratulations on that again, that's so important, is
Speaker:I wanted to talk about commuter rail.
Speaker:You all have one of the biggest, is it the biggest commuter
Speaker:rail system in the country?
Speaker:So, it's not the biggest, but I will say this Paul, we saw the largest
Speaker:resurgence and return to ridership following a world of COVID 19.
Speaker:We operate just about 500 track miles of commuter rail, 14 lines.
Speaker:We have two new lines coming online very early in 2025 with a South
Speaker:Coast Rail project, which will bring New Bedford and Fall River,
Speaker:two big South Coast Massachusetts.
Speaker:My mom used to live in Fall River, Massachusetts.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Oh, there you go.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:and do you contract that out?
Speaker:You work with Keolis on that, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We do, we do.
Speaker:So we contract that out to Keolis Commuter Services, they work under our
Speaker:Railroad Operations Division, which rolls up into my office, so they, they
Speaker:are responsible for the operation and maintenance of the service system and
Speaker:infrastructure as well.
Speaker:Yeah, I know David Scori pretty well, the head of Keolis.
Speaker:He's a great guy.
Speaker:I think they have a great team, Keolis.
Speaker:I've actually visited some of their operations around the world and been
Speaker:very impressed with their operating of rail service around the world.
Speaker:Do you have anything new happening with commuter rail?
Speaker:Well, I think one thing we're really excited about is, just, just last
Speaker:week, we, agreed, at a, our last board meeting, to partner with Keolis to
Speaker:electrify, one of our commuter rail lines, and that's the Fairmont line.
Speaker:That's a big, that's a big move, man.
Speaker:So that's a huge step.
Speaker:Electrification of commuter rail has been a topic here in Boston
Speaker:for years and years and years.
Speaker:And it really gained momentum when Amtrak electrified from New Haven to Boston.
Speaker:You know, but for, you know, a couple of decades, we kept,
Speaker:kept running under the wire.
Speaker:Conventional diesel push-pull and when I, when I was in my previous role, You
Speaker:know, I was really starting to look at how can we crack that egg, right?
Speaker:There is infrastructure that's there, it's available, and no matter what the
Speaker:outcome, I would love to try it, right?
Speaker:What would that look like from a commuter rail operation?
Speaker:And, and look, I mean, there are obviously so many pros to electrification.
Speaker:But now, putting my operations hat on, there is risk, right?
Speaker:And I'm gonna talk about some of the weather that we see here in this region.
Speaker:Oh, right.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Cause you get a tree that falls in the wrong place and it takes your
Speaker:wire down, you're dead in the water.
Speaker:Versus a diesel locomotive, I make sure the tank's full of fuel.
Speaker:And away I go.
Speaker:you know, so for me, it's always been, let's, let's try it.
Speaker:Let's see what happens.
Speaker:And to realize the benefit of electric traction, you know, Amtrak sees
Speaker:that 40, 50 miles between stations.
Speaker:Commuter rail, you know, we're stopping every 4 to 6, 8 miles.
Speaker:you know, so I was really curious to see what it, what it materialized into.
Speaker:you know, And, you know, in this role, obviously now, you know,
Speaker:we were able to get proposals in to see what would this look like.
Speaker:And really, Paul, I'm so excited to not only try it, to demonstrate it, but look
Speaker:at the technology that's out there now.
Speaker:Five years ago, some of the technology didn't exist.
Speaker:you know, we're looking at battery electric multiple unit
Speaker:vehicles on the Fairmont line.
Speaker:and that puts us in a good spot to number one.
Speaker:Save on infrastructure, right?
Speaker:It's very expensive, as you know, to electrify any rail corridor.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Continuous catenary is very expensive.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:you know, but, but, non continuous catenary with a, with a BEMU type
Speaker:vehicle That will be the proving ground for how that type of technology
Speaker:can fit into the rest of the
Speaker:system.
Speaker:So
Speaker:that, so explain that a little bit for people, how that works, because
Speaker:I think that's very important.
Speaker:This is, this is how it's going to work.
Speaker:Yep, so, so right now, when a train leaves Boston South Station to go down the
Speaker:Famont line, it's under overhead catenary for the first mile or so of its trip.
Speaker:And that's, that's so people
Speaker:that don't know that there's a, Tell them what that means.
Speaker:So there's, there's a pantograph mounted on top of the vehicle, which
Speaker:goes up and rides on a contact wire.
Speaker:And that contact wire, you know, in our case, transmits, 25 kVA
Speaker:of electricity into the vehicle.
Speaker:and what a battery electric multiple unit vehicle would do is it uses that
Speaker:electricity, to move the vehicle, but it also charges a bank of batteries.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So now, when the wire, is gonna end, I can lower my pantograph and
Speaker:actually operate the train using that stored power out of the batteries.
Speaker:And how long can you run on
Speaker:that,
Speaker:do you think?
Speaker:On
Speaker:that stored power?
Speaker:So, the, the, the OEMs are giving us a lot of data and a lot of numbers.
Speaker:the Fairmont line, we expect to, uh, install some sections of catenary,
Speaker:particularly near stations, right?
Speaker:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker:Use the bulk of your electricity to start.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, but from, from that very controlled pilot program.
Speaker:we will quickly see if this is a solution that we can deploy across
Speaker:the entire commuter rail system.
Speaker:And for example, a lot of our lines branch off of the Northeast Corridor, again,
Speaker:where the infrastructure is already there.
Speaker:I can have a pantograph up between Boston and Canton Junction, where
Speaker:our Stoughton branch peels off.
Speaker:If that, if those batteries are charging on that whole ride, and I can make it from
Speaker:Canton Junction to Stoughton and back, without depleting batteries, I mean, I
Speaker:have now electrified a corridor without having to hang a single foot of wire.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And that's amazing.
Speaker:That's golden, brother.
Speaker:So, we are very excited to, to get this project rolling
Speaker:and see what we can deliver.
Speaker:Well, what a great way to wrap up our conversation, Ryan.
Speaker:I mean, there's so much more we could talk about, but, it just shows you the
Speaker:kind of, you know, forward thinking that you guys are doing there at MBTA.
Speaker:Wrap us up with kind of your overall vision of where you're going.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Paul, we are a new MBTA.
Speaker:We have a new way of doing business, and we are bringing really the top
Speaker:of industry experience to the table, to lead this agency into the future.
Speaker:And by that, it's not just You know, battery electric multiple units.
Speaker:It's back to the basics of, of using common sense
Speaker:approaches based on experience.
Speaker:You know, if, if I was to count the years of experience at the top of the MBTA
Speaker:now in actual rail transportation, you know, I'm hitting triple digits easily.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:But I think, but I think that's where we need to be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's going to drive the future and make sure that, that we cater to our number one
Speaker:mission, which is we exist to move people.
Speaker:And we need to do it safely, every mile has to be safe, and we need to continue to
Speaker:rebuild that trust, with the public, with our stakeholders, with our communities,
Speaker:and really show them what we are made of and what we can accomplish together.
Speaker:Beautifully said.
Speaker:Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged.
Speaker:We'd like to thank our guest Ryan Coholan COO of the MBTA
Speaker:for being on the show this week.
Speaker:Hi, I'm Tris Hussey, editor of the podcast.
Speaker:And coming up next week on the show, we have our second episode
Speaker:sponsored by Uber Transit.
Speaker:And we're changing gears this time to talk about leveraging TNCs in paratransit.
Speaker:operations.
Speaker:Our guests on the show will be Andre Colaiace of Access Services in LA,
Speaker:Chris Pangilinan from New York MTA.
Speaker:And Eileen Collins Turvey of TriMet.
Speaker:Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.
Speaker:At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people, and at
Speaker:Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.
Speaker:So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.
