Post-Election Impact Unplugged with SWTA

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Whenever there's an election.

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And especially one where the political alignment of the government changes.

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There's always questions of well, what's it going to mean to me?

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And especially for transit.

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Hi.

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I'm Tris Hussey editor of the podcast, stepping in for Paul this week.

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And we have a really great show for you.

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We have a legislative update hosted by Rich Sampson, the Executive

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Director of the Southwest Transit Association or SWTA and Becca Green,

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their Legislative Committee Chair talking about, well what's next.

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Now that we have a new administrate.

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Restoration coming into the United States and both houses of Congress.

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Are controlled by the Republican Party.

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So what does this mean for transit?

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Well, Rich and Becca.

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Layout.

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Everything.

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The thing that they think is on the horizon and some fantastic tips.

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Tips for how you can connect with your elected officials.

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No matter where they stand on the political spectrum.

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This advice.

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Nice works.

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Even outside of the United States.

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All politics is local.

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All politicians want to look good for their constituents.

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Fronts in the areas they serve.

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And, you know, There aren't that?

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Many better ways.

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To serve your constituents than supporting public transit.

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Now.

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Here are Rich and Becca and their legislative.

Rich Sampson: 00:01:31

Thanks for joining us here today for SWATA's

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2024 Election Recap Session.

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I'm Rich Sampson, the Executive Director of the Southwest

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Transit Association, SWATA.

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I'm joined today here with Becca Green from Rock Region

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Metro in Little Rock, Arkansas.

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And Becca is our Legislative Committee Chair for SWATA.

Rich Sampson: 00:01:50

And Becca, you want to introduce yourself?

Becca Green: 00:01:51

Sure.

Becca Green: 00:01:52

thanks everyone for joining us this morning.

Becca Green: 00:01:54

I'm Becca Green.

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I'm the Chief Planning and Communications Officer at Rock Region Metro.

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Rich and I were just talking before this, call started that, legislative

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affairs, public affairs is just a fraction of what I do at a small agency.

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And I'm sure many of you out there are in similar positions, but we're

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excited to talk about the importance of the work that we do in the public

Becca Green: 00:02:12

affairs space, especially as we, gear up for an incoming administration.

Rich Sampson: 00:02:17

Yeah, thanks, Becca, and appreciate you talking through

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this with our attendees and me here.

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In terms of, the agenda for today, we're going to look at, some,

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initially look at some ballot measures across the SWTA of the nation.

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We're going to be setting the stage for the reauthorization of the Bipartisan

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Infrastructure Law, also called the IIJA.

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We're going to talk about the existing federal transit funding programs

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and where they're headed in the new Congress and the new administration.

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Some issues on regulatory relief and policy changes that will play into the

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reauthorization, just, you know, aspects and proposals as we move forward, and

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then kind of we'll wrap up with how do we, you know, move forward with

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messaging for the new leadership that was just elected or, you know, in

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some cases reelected in Washington.

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So that's kind of our game plan for today.

Rich Sampson: 00:03:05

Becca you want to kick us off?

Becca Green: 00:03:06

Sure, thanks Rich.

Becca Green: 00:03:07

So let's start with transit ballot initiatives.

Becca Green: 00:03:10

87 of transit initiatives on the ballot won this year, which means

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that transit investment continues to be popular among voters.

Becca Green: 00:03:17

some of our initiatives were part of the SWATA Nation, so Rich, do you

Becca Green: 00:03:20

want to take us through those and what we can learn from their success?

Rich Sampson: 00:03:23

Yeah, absolutely.

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And we had a really good day on Tuesday last week in terms of voters in the

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SWATA nation that had a chance to approve ballot measures, whether referendums

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or taxing, you know, measures and things like that in that direction.

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The Phoenix region, primarily Maricopa County, they had a big

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measure to fund Valley Metro and other services in that region.

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It's been a multi year effort that Valley Metro and advocates in the region have

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been really pressing forward and a lot of, you know, demographic and political

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changes in Arizona the last few years and the timing of this seemed to be just

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right for Valley Metro and their peers.

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Arizona Transit Association has done great work on this topic, kind

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of galvanizing everybody together.

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So, this presents some short and long term funding for Phoenix and

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Valley Metro to focus on their current services and do even more.

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So, that was one of the highlights in the same state up in Arizona and Flagstaff.

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Mountain Lion had another successful measure that continued, their existing

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sales tax that they used to support their service there and will allow them to fund

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new and improve services in the town that is home to Northern Arizona University.

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And, you know, a real good market for transit.

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Lots of folks that are taking, you know, lots of frequent short

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trips, online and elsewhere.

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So we're pleased to see that one in a small urban type community.

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And then Denver RTD was a little different.

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there was a ballot measure that.

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was basically allowing Denver RTD to keep funding that was above or kind of not,

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fully allocated within the, sales tax that if they got more revenue through

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the sales tax, they're allowed to keep it rather than having to send it back to the

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state, along with some other measures that really provides some stability for Denver

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. We know there's some other ballot measures across country.

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Nashville was another good success story of increasing fixed route service along

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with paratransit and microtransit there.

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Previously, Nashville's had some trouble at the ballot box for transit measures.

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This is a good sign to see them, come through for the transit system

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there, so, again, most of the measures put before, voters on election day

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were successful, so, if we look at the local level, transit is and has,

Rich Sampson: 00:05:42

keeps doing very well among voters.

Becca Green: 00:05:44

Yeah, so we want to congratulate all of our colleagues

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who worked on all these campaigns and, And, you know, we wanted to throw

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Nashville in there because 87 percent wins means that 13 percent didn't.

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If that happens to be you and your work, don't get discouraged because the

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name of the game in Nashville is, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.

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So congrats to all.

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it's a few weeks until 2025, just a few weeks, and we have a new

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administration taking the reins.

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What is most important for the transit industry to gain

Becca Green: 00:06:14

and protect in the new year?

Rich Sampson: 00:06:16

Yeah, that's a good question, Becca, and, you know, at

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the federal level, with, you know, a new presidential administration or a

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returning presidential administration, you know, this has only happened one

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time in American history before with non consecutive presidential terms.

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There'll be some new ground for folks, along with, you know,

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Republicans in control of the House and the Senate, at least according

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to current projections in the House.

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the main bill that funds transit is the Bipartisan Infrastructure

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Law or the infrastructure bill.

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Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.

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and some good news on that front, Becca, we don't often get to say there

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was wisdom that happens in Congress, but when they passed this bill, about

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five years ago, four or five years ago, they extended it not only through this

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presidential election, but also into late 2026, September 30th of that year,

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to be exact, and What that's going to do is take this bill right up to the front

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door of the midterms election cycle.

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So this is where the funding for all the programs, both discretionary

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and formula, comes through.

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We're set at least for the next foreseeable future.

Rich Sampson: 00:07:19

you know, the real focus is going to be the appropriations process, and

Rich Sampson: 00:07:22

I'll get to that in a second, but In terms of setting the stage for what

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will happen in the reauthorization going forward, there was a group of

Rich Sampson: 00:07:30

bipartisan folks on the Senate side last time that really set the stage

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for what became this bill, at least in terms of the, the funding aspects of it.

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There weren't a whole lot of policy changes in the BIL last

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time, We had a couple of folks from our region on that group who,

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really negotiated that compromise.

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A few of those folks have left, but I think that the SWATA Nation has real

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good opportunity, especially through Senator Cassidy, and I think Mark

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Kelly from Arizona so hopefully the stability continues with this, with,

Rich Sampson: 00:07:59

a bipartisan group going forward.

Rich Sampson: 00:08:01

We'll see, um, other folks that might be good opportunities.

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Senator Moran in Kansas is one of those folks.

Rich Sampson: 00:08:07

so we'll be seeing if there's a sense of bipartisanship

Rich Sampson: 00:08:11

that will continue in the Senate when it comes time to reauthorize this bill.

Becca Green: 00:08:15

Well, that's great news, because as we all know, that was

Becca Green: 00:08:18

a historic investment in funding.

Rich Sampson: 00:08:21

Yeah, and you know, just to touch on the appropriations

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process , we won't really go into what the prospects are in the new Congress,

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but first of all, I always like to show this slide anytime we're talking about

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federal policy and legislation is.

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Three A's of funding programs, and this isn't just our bill, but many programs, is

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the authorization process that establishes a multi year bill, the appropriations

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process by which Congress decides how much those programs are going to be

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getting , and then the apportionment process by which the bureaucratic programs

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actually says, okay, we have that funding available, this is, we're going to

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distribute it according to the formulas or different competitive grant programs.

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So, I always like to note that.

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And then, just look again what happened in the current Congress, so as in, not

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the folks that have been re elected for 25, 26, but The folks that are in the

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current Congress, what they've done on the transportation and housing and urban

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development appropriations so far is the House, both, both chambers passed their

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bills on appropriations for our funding , but House bill had a cut in transit, about

Rich Sampson: 00:09:26

10 percent less than the authorized level, but most of those funds were targeted

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at the capital investment grant program.

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We'll talk about that more in a minute.

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On the Senate side, now, this is a Senate that's currently

Rich Sampson: 00:09:36

controlled by Democrats that will be transitioning to Republican control.

Rich Sampson: 00:09:40

They actually increased funding, above authorized levels.

Rich Sampson: 00:09:44

and I also want to know, and we'll talk about this again later, is,

Rich Sampson: 00:09:47

they made some changes to the federal share requirements for 5310 and 5311.

Rich Sampson: 00:09:52

So, I can't say what's going to happen again, but there were some trends that may

Rich Sampson: 00:09:57

continue or we may see snippets of going forward in the appropriations process.

Rich Sampson: 00:10:02

So, again, we'll help you keep attuned to what's going on

Rich Sampson: 00:10:05

on the appropriations side.

Rich Sampson: 00:10:07

But this is where, for 2025 and most of 26, we're going to

Rich Sampson: 00:10:10

be looking at in Washington.

Becca Green: 00:10:12

Okay, so we talked about the biggie, the bipartisan infrastructure

Becca Green: 00:10:14

bills, so let's dive into some more specific pots of funding that we need

Becca Green: 00:10:19

to worry about for the coming year.

Rich Sampson: 00:10:20

Yeah, so, you know, the good news here, and this is not just

Rich Sampson: 00:10:24

what's been happening recently, it's kind of been the trend over the last

Rich Sampson: 00:10:29

few Congresses and few Presidential Administrations is the formula program,

Rich Sampson: 00:10:33

so The programs that, in the law, are written out exactly how they're supposed

Rich Sampson: 00:10:38

to be distributed in funding, so the 5307 program for urban transit, 5310 for

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specialized and 5311 for rural communities is pretty uncontroversial in the Congress,

Rich Sampson: 00:10:50

no matter who's in charge of that.

Rich Sampson: 00:10:52

The good thing there is, those funds are backed up by the Highway Trust Fund

Rich Sampson: 00:10:56

and the Transit Trust Fund dollars.

Rich Sampson: 00:10:58

So, it's harder for, If anybody wants to make specific cuts to

Rich Sampson: 00:11:02

go after those because they have specific revenue connected to them.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:06

so I would say if you're, you know, if you get a lot of funding through

Rich Sampson: 00:11:09

those programs and if you're on the call today, you probably do.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:12

I would not be as worried about those funds.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:15

The greatest threat would be like a general government wide

Rich Sampson: 00:11:18

rescission of a certain percentage.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:21

But my, my perspective is these programs were, will probably

Rich Sampson: 00:11:25

not be targeted directly.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:27

5309 for bus and bus facilities program, both the, there's a formula aspect of

Rich Sampson: 00:11:32

that, which again I think will be pretty, pretty, you know, safe moving forward.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:37

Even the competitive slash discretionary program, this is a program that

Rich Sampson: 00:11:41

is purchasing vehicles, purchasing things for transit systems, again,

Rich Sampson: 00:11:46

across the country and not just for particular urban areas on in any areas.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:50

It's a nationwide program.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:52

I don't predict a lot of, turbulence heading that way for that program.

Rich Sampson: 00:11:57

State of Good Repair repair programs also probably have some good leniency there,

Rich Sampson: 00:12:02

but we need to start thinking about how we message this program specifically in terms

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of fixing assets that we already have.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:09

The, you know, President Elect Trump, you know, that was something you focused

Rich Sampson: 00:12:13

on before, but if you noticed on all the speeches, he had a sign up below

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his podium saying, Trump will fix it.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:19

State of good repair is a chance to connect to that,

Rich Sampson: 00:12:22

that momentum on fixing things.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:25

so I think this is a chance for the transit industry to kind of

Rich Sampson: 00:12:28

connect with some of that messaging.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:30

and I don't mean to suggest that Democrats also don't want to fix things.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:33

This is something that, if we kind of distill it to that message,

Rich Sampson: 00:12:37

we, we probably have a good shot of making a good case lastly.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:41

The capital investment programs, new and small starts, core capacity.

Rich Sampson: 00:12:46

This is where we may see some friction, and we have in the past, particularly

Rich Sampson: 00:12:49

in the previous Trump administration, of these are programs that were moved outside

Rich Sampson: 00:12:54

the trust fund, funding levels before, and this is where you may start to see some,

Rich Sampson: 00:13:00

some issues going on as the appropriations process unfolds, and specifically how much

Rich Sampson: 00:13:06

money is authorized for those programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:13:08

So, this be a tougher one to figure out where we're heading on, but now is the

Rich Sampson: 00:13:13

time to make your case for these programs that we do need to continue investment.

Rich Sampson: 00:13:18

SWATA strongly supports them.

Rich Sampson: 00:13:20

just in terms of looking at the dynamics though, this is, this will

Rich Sampson: 00:13:23

be our toughest battle, going forward.

Becca Green: 00:13:25

So, let's switch for a minute and talk about regulatory relief,

Becca Green: 00:13:29

starting with workforce development.

Becca Green: 00:13:31

We know that, there are transit advocates who are pursuing dropping the under

Becca Green: 00:13:35

the hood requirement, for example, for fixed route operators pursuing

Becca Green: 00:13:39

CDL licensing, which should be, you know, hopefully a best practice that

Becca Green: 00:13:43

can be added on the federal level for recommendations for all the states.

Becca Green: 00:13:47

But do you think the incoming administration will be open to this

Becca Green: 00:13:51

idea and are there other actions we should be taking to bring more

Becca Green: 00:13:55

incoming administration awareness about the ongoing shortage of fixed

Becca Green: 00:13:59

route bus operators and any other forms of relief that we can find?

Rich Sampson: 00:14:03

Yeah, Becca, I think that's a good question.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:05

And, you know, a waiver from the FMCSA's under the hood requirement is, I think,

Rich Sampson: 00:14:12

a reasonable first step in addressing the issues, specifically those related

Rich Sampson: 00:14:18

to CDL, commercial driver's licenses.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:21

The challenge for us is that this is, these were enacted in a piece of

Rich Sampson: 00:14:25

legislation that really wasn't intended to impact transit as much as it has.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:30

It was mostly for over the road transit.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:31

trucking.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:32

And regardless of what's going on, I think in the Trump administration,

Rich Sampson: 00:14:36

we heard pretty clearly from Congress that they don't have much interest

Rich Sampson: 00:14:39

in changing the legislation there.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:41

It was a lot of hard work on both sides.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:44

I don't expect that dynamic to change, but a waiver is a process that

Rich Sampson: 00:14:48

doesn't require reopening the hood, so to speak, of that legislation.

Rich Sampson: 00:14:53

So, it's one area that, you know, doesn't require any additional funding,

Rich Sampson: 00:14:58

and generally, if you want to make government less cumbersome for folks,

Rich Sampson: 00:15:02

this might be a, an approach that has some, some currency right now,

Rich Sampson: 00:15:05

is trying to remove things that, are needlessly complicated in government.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:10

I think also on the CDL aspect, we're going to want to look at how that

Rich Sampson: 00:15:14

impacts with, the testing program in general and how we can eventually start

Rich Sampson: 00:15:21

heading towards a you know, standalone transit exemption from CDL rules.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:26

But again, that's something that we're going to take, need to take a longer

Rich Sampson: 00:15:29

term effort in delivering in really, you know, delineate where we stand

Rich Sampson: 00:15:34

out in terms of what are our needs for, drivers licensing for buses.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:39

You know, most transit agencies don't even have transit operators

Rich Sampson: 00:15:42

doing maintenance directly.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:44

They don't want them touching the buses.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:47

There's a different, computer aspect of modern vehicles, both small

Rich Sampson: 00:15:51

vehicles and large vehicles, that.

Rich Sampson: 00:15:53

This process doesn't really get at very well, but for the time being,

Rich Sampson: 00:15:57

focusing on that under the hood waiver, we also want to examine the saliva

Rich Sampson: 00:16:01

testing for marijuana drug testing, and encouraging the Health and Human Services

Rich Sampson: 00:16:07

Department to accelerate the deployment of those testing sites for saliva.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:12

You know, we're not looking at any major drug classification changes

Rich Sampson: 00:16:17

coming up anytime soon, and we really aren't interested in that.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:21

It's how do we have a comparable process for the way that

Rich Sampson: 00:16:24

we do alcohol testing now.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:26

Making that so these jobs are more appealing to folks who may

Rich Sampson: 00:16:31

be in a state where marijuana is legal at the state level.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:34

And aren't coming to work under the influence.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:38

And that's what we're looking for.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:39

So that's another element is that marijuana saliva testing.

Rich Sampson: 00:16:43

But overall, we need to be connecting with new and kind of new ways of

Rich Sampson: 00:16:49

modeling encouraging operator jobs to make them more attractive to folks who

Rich Sampson: 00:16:54

might want to work at transit, you know, we're looking at shift assignments or

Rich Sampson: 00:16:58

the work life balance, you know, and opportunities for advancement is, and

Rich Sampson: 00:17:03

these aren't really areas that the federal government is responsible for.

Rich Sampson: 00:17:07

This is more an industry response to the changing workplace dynamics we have

Rich Sampson: 00:17:12

since COVID in terms of it's really tough to make a bus driver jobs attractive if

Rich Sampson: 00:17:18

you have to show up every day at 4:30 AM and you might have a split shift in

Rich Sampson: 00:17:22

the middle and you're not getting home 'til 8 or 9 PM and who knows when you

Rich Sampson: 00:17:26

might have a Saturday or Sunday off ever.

Rich Sampson: 00:17:30

So making these jobs more appealing and kind of splitting

Rich Sampson: 00:17:34

up some of those shift things.

Rich Sampson: 00:17:35

obviously, you know, a conversation needs to have with your, your, your

Rich Sampson: 00:17:39

union shop if you're a labor property.

Rich Sampson: 00:17:42

But regardless, that's something that we need to focus on as an industry.

Rich Sampson: 00:17:45

So, Becca, I'd say there's a bunch of issues there on the driver shortages

Rich Sampson: 00:17:50

that we can be looking at, both from an advocacy perspective, but also an

Rich Sampson: 00:17:54

industry internal perspective in terms of making those jobs more appealing.

Becca Green: 00:17:59

Right.

Becca Green: 00:18:00

Well, and, kind of switching over to, you know, we talked about some of the

Becca Green: 00:18:06

human based regulatory relief issues, let's, let's go look at vehicles, and

Becca Green: 00:18:10

it may be because, we finally received a bunch of our long outstanding deliveries

Becca Green: 00:18:16

of vehicles, for our agency, but I don't hear as much, I feel like, about

Becca Green: 00:18:21

the small bus crisis, so what are your thoughts on, whether this is a big of

Becca Green: 00:18:26

an issue, in our industry and if so, what are some opportunities we can

Becca Green: 00:18:30

seek with the incoming administration to assist our agencies in getting

Becca Green: 00:18:33

the vehicles that we need to either continue service or start new service.

Rich Sampson: 00:18:38

Yeah, another hot button issue there, Becca, and I think what we're

Rich Sampson: 00:18:41

looking at is definitely an improvement in the small bus space, I think, you

Rich Sampson: 00:18:46

know, the supply, the supply delays have improved dramatically in the last year

Rich Sampson: 00:18:51

or so, and good work from the supplier sectors, in providing those vehicles.

Rich Sampson: 00:18:56

The backlog has really decreased, but the issue that we're still having is

Rich Sampson: 00:19:00

the price of the vehicles is not going down, and honestly, it's probably

Rich Sampson: 00:19:04

unrealistic to expect that they're ever going to go back down to where

Rich Sampson: 00:19:07

they were, you know, inflation has hit us all, and this is a ramification of

Rich Sampson: 00:19:12

inflation in our industries that the cost of the vehicles is increased.

Rich Sampson: 00:19:16

And so I think that's where we're going to continue to see, you

Rich Sampson: 00:19:20

know, if not a crisis, a level, a point of concern on small vehicles.

Rich Sampson: 00:19:24

And I think the price point on large vehicles is also a concern.

Rich Sampson: 00:19:28

What the game is going to be for us going, you know, moving forward is making

Rich Sampson: 00:19:32

sure we're clear about the expectations that we're discussing with policymakers

Rich Sampson: 00:19:36

in Washington and elsewhere in terms of how much is that dollar in federal

Rich Sampson: 00:19:40

investment getting us in a new vehicle?

Rich Sampson: 00:19:42

Even though they, the BIL really increased the amount of funding available to us,

Rich Sampson: 00:19:47

it hasn't really kept pace with the increased cost of both vehicles, along

Rich Sampson: 00:19:52

with the driver, pay that has gone up, and I don't think anybody's opposed to

Rich Sampson: 00:19:56

drivers making more money at all, or, you know, keeping pace with the industry,

Rich Sampson: 00:20:00

but there are direct challenges that came at a time when we got a bunch

Rich Sampson: 00:20:04

more money, But our costs went all up by, if not that same amount or even a

Rich Sampson: 00:20:09

little more during the height of COVID.

Rich Sampson: 00:20:10

So it's a real battle that we're facing on that vehicle shortages issue.

Rich Sampson: 00:20:15

I think more so on the price point right now.

Becca Green: 00:20:17

Right, right.

Becca Green: 00:20:18

Well, and I know we've talked about funding, a good bit at the

Becca Green: 00:20:21

beginning of this session, but, where are we with the push to reduce

Becca Green: 00:20:26

the local match requirements from some smaller agencies out there?

Rich Sampson: 00:20:30

Yeah.

Rich Sampson: 00:20:30

And I think we saw some, some momentum going on during the COVID bills in

Rich Sampson: 00:20:36

Things just didn't quite line up to get anything passed through Congress, either

Rich Sampson: 00:20:40

the previous one or the current one, in terms of changing those ratios, but the

Rich Sampson: 00:20:45

Biden Administration proposed, operating assistance, local match relief for when

Rich Sampson: 00:20:51

you're using, local match, you need local match for operating support several times.

Rich Sampson: 00:20:56

Congress just recently, I mentioned in the appropriations process on the

Rich Sampson: 00:20:59

Senate side, Looking at changing those requirements for the specialized and rural

Rich Sampson: 00:21:04

programs, and we obviously think that, especially for smaller urban properties,

Rich Sampson: 00:21:09

that is a big concern, particularly those ones that aren't eligible for,

Rich Sampson: 00:21:13

like, the STIC program right now.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:15

So, we'll see where it all heads.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:17

Senator Smith from Minnesota has put out a bill a couple times now to change

Rich Sampson: 00:21:22

the rural local match requirement.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:25

And, I think that has a chance to build some momentum.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:28

in the current Congress, there were some, bipartisan co sponsors

Rich Sampson: 00:21:31

for that bill, previously.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:33

So, I think you'll see that bill get reintroduced when the new Congress

Rich Sampson: 00:21:37

comes in, and it really to be a, a marker for where they want to

Rich Sampson: 00:21:41

have, have, reauthorization proceed.

Rich Sampson: 00:21:44

The more that we can bring up the case of, particularly for, you know, smaller

Rich Sampson: 00:21:47

systems, rural, specialized, and small urban, that, the local match is really

Rich Sampson: 00:21:52

a challenging, barrier to making more progress and, you know, running more

Rich Sampson: 00:21:57

frequent service, running more reliable service, and thereby attracting riders.

Rich Sampson: 00:22:01

We're leaving so much federal funding on the table that's already been approved.

Rich Sampson: 00:22:05

We can make our, the federal investment go further by just, you know, extending

Rich Sampson: 00:22:10

that local match to a higher level.

Rich Sampson: 00:22:12

So I think there's some good prospects to see that as part of the bill that

Rich Sampson: 00:22:16

eventually replaces the, the BILIIJA.

Becca Green: 00:22:20

Right.

Becca Green: 00:22:21

Well, and speaking of, you know, all this, all the funding sources out there,

Becca Green: 00:22:25

and you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but, the Highway Trust Fund,

Becca Green: 00:22:29

which of course I think is a misnomer because it also benefits transit.

Becca Green: 00:22:33

So, do we think that this incoming Congress is going to be the Congress

Becca Green: 00:22:38

that helps not only meet current funding needs out of that revenue source,

Becca Green: 00:22:42

but also grows it for the future?

Rich Sampson: 00:22:44

This one I wish I could, you know, come sweeping in

Rich Sampson: 00:22:47

with a lot of positive energy on, but I honestly don't see them being the

Rich Sampson: 00:22:53

ones to make the change, you know, the, but we're into now our third or

Rich Sampson: 00:22:57

fourth Presidential Administration through the bill, and doubled that in

Rich Sampson: 00:23:01

a number of Congresses that have just kicked the can down the road so many

Rich Sampson: 00:23:05

times on this in terms of finding a long term predictable revenue source

Rich Sampson: 00:23:10

for all the transportation programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:23:12

I don't think you're going to see a lot of initiative on congestion pricing.

Rich Sampson: 00:23:16

Or maybe a little more dabbling on vehicle miles, travels, but, it's, it's

Rich Sampson: 00:23:21

hard to say that there's going to be a, a large, initiative and momentum to,

Rich Sampson: 00:23:27

to deal with the, you know, the 3, 000 pound gorilla or elephant or whatever

Rich Sampson: 00:23:32

animal you want to say of that size.

Rich Sampson: 00:23:34

So I would love, love, love, love for the Trump Administration or the new

Rich Sampson: 00:23:40

Congress to prove us wrong and say, We've got a brand new idea on how to

Rich Sampson: 00:23:44

deal with this that saves everybody money and provides new investment.

Rich Sampson: 00:23:48

I'm not sure the holes in the Swiss cheese will line up quite so

Rich Sampson: 00:23:52

favorably on that one though, Becca.

Rich Sampson: 00:23:54

And I just want to note that, in the most recent, FTA circular, That

Rich Sampson: 00:23:59

kind of made some technical changes to a bunch of program requirements.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:04

This came out just a few weeks ago.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:06

things like indirect cost, agreements and, property that you're doing in

Rich Sampson: 00:24:10

capital projects, but most notably the vehicle disposition, changes that, you

Rich Sampson: 00:24:16

know, a lot of folks were working on that sale of vehicles past useful life.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:20

There's a little bit more leeway here, in terms of what you're allowed

Rich Sampson: 00:24:24

to do between that $5-10,000 range.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:27

I just want to note all these technical corrections is some

Rich Sampson: 00:24:30

things that were recently changed by the current Administration.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:34

I doubt that these will be targets to go back to what they were.

Rich Sampson: 00:24:37

These are all very highly technical changes, but if you haven't taken a

Rich Sampson: 00:24:41

look at them yet, do check out that FTA circular if you like, we can send

Rich Sampson: 00:24:45

you a link to that, but I do think it kind of sets the stage for some of

Rich Sampson: 00:24:49

those regulatory and technical changes that don't cost a lot of money, or any

Rich Sampson: 00:24:55

money in most cases, that we might be able to build some easy wins on with

Rich Sampson: 00:25:00

the new Congress in terms of if you can change some of these things that don't

Rich Sampson: 00:25:04

require us to get any new funding, but can help us act more like a business.

Rich Sampson: 00:25:09

I do think there's some real opportunities there in working with the Trump

Rich Sampson: 00:25:13

Administration along with the new Congress on things like, you know, you mentioned,

Rich Sampson: 00:25:17

the CDL issues and the, the, testing, saliva testing, but Also, potentially

Rich Sampson: 00:25:23

things like the Buy America Domestic Content provisions and things like that.

Rich Sampson: 00:25:27

So, just keep your ears open and let us know what areas in current statute are

Rich Sampson: 00:25:33

really challenging for your agencies.

Rich Sampson: 00:25:35

And we want to start, you know, having a good extensive list of those technical

Rich Sampson: 00:25:39

corrections we need to be working on.

Becca Green: 00:25:41

Well, and you know, there was a lot of rhetoric in the, in the election

Becca Green: 00:25:45

about affordability and housing, and you know, I think that goes hand in hand

Becca Green: 00:25:50

with transit, so what about, and maybe it seems extra greedy, but given that

Becca Green: 00:25:54

we've had the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill not that long ago in the past,

Becca Green: 00:25:59

but what are some potential new funding sources for transit that kind of tap into

Becca Green: 00:26:04

the the role that we play with transit and transit adjacent community needs

Becca Green: 00:26:10

centered around housing and affordability.

Rich Sampson: 00:26:13

Yeah, and you know, I think we heard a lot about, you

Rich Sampson: 00:26:16

know, affordability in the context of inflation this past week in

Rich Sampson: 00:26:20

terms of where voters viewed that.

Rich Sampson: 00:26:22

And it's one of those things, I think, it's something that

Rich Sampson: 00:26:25

transit's always been doing.

Rich Sampson: 00:26:26

You know, we've had, transit oriented development grants in place for a

Rich Sampson: 00:26:30

while, and they're actually one of the few programs that were sometimes

Rich Sampson: 00:26:34

undersubscribed in the last couple rounds of funding in that there was actually

Rich Sampson: 00:26:39

more funding available than was requested.

Rich Sampson: 00:26:41

I know the last, I think, one or two might have been over that level, but I

Rich Sampson: 00:26:45

think we're talking about the way that we frame things like TOD in that we've

Rich Sampson: 00:26:49

always been making these projects focused on affordability for people to get to

Rich Sampson: 00:26:54

jobs and health care and education.

Rich Sampson: 00:26:57

If we do transit right, we solve a lot of these challenges that people

Rich Sampson: 00:27:02

who are struggling face every day from, you know, finding an affordable

Rich Sampson: 00:27:05

way to get to work or housing that might be better located to their jobs.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:09

Faith communities and things like that.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:11

When transit works well and when it's properly invested, we kind of

Rich Sampson: 00:27:14

are one of those, you know, magic ingredients, you know, don't want to

Rich Sampson: 00:27:17

say silver bullet, but one of those, you know, things that bring all sorts of

Rich Sampson: 00:27:22

different needs and challenges together.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:24

if we do it properly.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:25

So I, yeah, Becca, I think, you know, working with some of these programs

Rich Sampson: 00:27:29

on emphasizing affordability and connectivity with existing communities

Rich Sampson: 00:27:34

where they're talking about, you know, getting to childcare or, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:27:37

training, things like that, particularly for folks that are looking for, you

Rich Sampson: 00:27:41

know, highly skilled jobs training.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:44

These might be really good, you know, emphases in the new

Rich Sampson: 00:27:48

government that's coming in.

Rich Sampson: 00:27:49

The other area I wanted to point out is there's always, you know, the opportunity

Rich Sampson: 00:27:54

to realize some more funding through the highway administration funds,

Rich Sampson: 00:27:57

FHWA, you know, and there's a lot of

Rich Sampson: 00:28:03

allowability built into the BIL at least to shift and flex some of those funds.

Rich Sampson: 00:28:08

We don't do that a lot because we don't have a lot of focus, you know, across the

Rich Sampson: 00:28:13

board, no, not calling out any particular State, and there's some that's, that

Rich Sampson: 00:28:16

States that do really well in this, of connecting That investment to how

Rich Sampson: 00:28:21

those states run their DOTs and flexing that, those highway funds to transit.

Rich Sampson: 00:28:26

So I think, you know, most immediately, those funds are already there in terms of

Rich Sampson: 00:28:29

new funding that you asked about, Becca.

Rich Sampson: 00:28:32

So, opportunities to flex more highway fund dollars to transit might be an

Rich Sampson: 00:28:37

opportunity for us going forward.

Becca Green: 00:28:38

Good.

Becca Green: 00:28:39

And definitely the message of affordability and being linked to transit,

Becca Green: 00:28:43

I think, is something we can carry forward in our messaging, that the election

Becca Green: 00:28:47

was a hot buzzword during the election.

Becca Green: 00:28:49

You know, earlier this year, SWATA hosted, another session on advocacy work, at the,

Becca Green: 00:28:55

not only the state level, but also the federal level, and we had some colleagues

Becca Green: 00:28:59

from Colorado, Louisiana, and then also from Tennessee and Oregon on that call

Becca Green: 00:29:05

and I was so impressed with the work that they're doing with reaching out to their

Becca Green: 00:29:10

respective delegations and keeping transit investment at the forefront of those

Becca Green: 00:29:14

conversations and community conversations.

Becca Green: 00:29:17

And some of the things that they struck me, that struck me as being

Becca Green: 00:29:20

relevant to moving forward with advocacy in 2025 was, just, just a

Becca Green: 00:29:25

return to basic relationship building.

Becca Green: 00:29:27

I remember, Anne from Colorado had said that she spent a lot of time

Becca Green: 00:29:31

in meetings that had nothing to do with transit, but she just wanted to

Becca Green: 00:29:36

be present to start building those relationships with other community

Becca Green: 00:29:40

members that she runs across in her work and her role as an advocate position.

Becca Green: 00:29:46

And so I think that's also important to kind of work on mending some

Becca Green: 00:29:51

of the relationships or even just starting them to begin with, with

Becca Green: 00:29:54

residents and voters who are both in the urban space and rural space.

Becca Green: 00:29:58

She also mentioned success in pairing transit initiatives with initiatives

Becca Green: 00:30:02

involving people with disabilities and people who are senior citizens

Becca Green: 00:30:06

because this country is aging.

Becca Green: 00:30:08

Which I think is, also important to keep in mind from a messaging standpoint

Becca Green: 00:30:13

as we, as we do our work in 2025.

Becca Green: 00:30:16

There were also some stories about how other agencies would take their riders

Becca Green: 00:30:20

to Capitol Hill to visit with elected officials, one on one and A real world

Becca Green: 00:30:27

human interest story, which human interest stories are always key to our visits with

Becca Green: 00:30:32

our respective delegations and making sure they understand how we're using our funds.

Becca Green: 00:30:37

I know that every time I go to the Hill, I begin and end every meeting

Becca Green: 00:30:41

that we have with a thank you.

Becca Green: 00:30:43

And tell, tell about the actual ways that we are using those funds and

Becca Green: 00:30:48

how it's affecting people's lives and how we're connecting them to the

Becca Green: 00:30:51

places that are meaningful to them.

Becca Green: 00:30:53

So what are some of the other messages that you think that we

Becca Green: 00:30:56

should be carrying forward in 2025 with this new Administration?

Rich Sampson: 00:30:59

Yeah, you know, I think, Becca you're absolutely right to note

Rich Sampson: 00:31:02

that, you know, having those foundations in your relationships at the State

Rich Sampson: 00:31:06

level really sets the stage for a good pattern to bring up to Washington.

Rich Sampson: 00:31:11

You know, I, I mentioned a couple ideas that, you know, if you, teasing out

Rich Sampson: 00:31:15

some things that we heard during the campaigns is, first of all, that fix

Rich Sampson: 00:31:19

it message going on in Washington and that, there, I, there's a perception.

Rich Sampson: 00:31:24

And.

Rich Sampson: 00:31:25

I think folks can disagree how much it actually exists, that things aren't

Rich Sampson: 00:31:29

working well, the opportunity for transit to be a solution, right out

Rich Sampson: 00:31:34

of the box to things working better, So tapping into that, fix It messaging

Rich Sampson: 00:31:39

through new vehicles, improved stations, you know, ways that we can get federal

Rich Sampson: 00:31:44

programs working to, you know, produce tangible changes and improvements,

Rich Sampson: 00:31:49

even in just our sector of communities.

Rich Sampson: 00:31:52

You know, if we have a chance to rehabilitate some, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:31:55

lighting at a transit facility or the streetscape along a good bus route.

Rich Sampson: 00:32:00

This could be ways for us to demonstrate that, hey, these programs actually do

Rich Sampson: 00:32:04

have, you know, ways of improving things, but also, you know, that connection to

Rich Sampson: 00:32:09

affordability, that, you know, we can reduce your, you know, monthly costs if

Rich Sampson: 00:32:14

you don't have to drive as far to work every day, you can take transit to maybe

Rich Sampson: 00:32:18

a place that's a little closer to you, or you new housing that might be located,

Rich Sampson: 00:32:23

you know, in a good, look, you know, area for transit that also connects into, you

Rich Sampson: 00:32:27

know, reducing cost for no shows for, you know, medical visits and things like that.

Rich Sampson: 00:32:33

There's a, a, a host of ways that transit is a source of savings, to

Rich Sampson: 00:32:39

the business community, to, you know, families and individuals, who might

Rich Sampson: 00:32:43

be low income or, you know, folks that just looking for some more options

Rich Sampson: 00:32:47

to congestion and things like that.

Rich Sampson: 00:32:49

And then I think branding, the changes that we need in

Rich Sampson: 00:32:53

Washington is common sense.

Rich Sampson: 00:32:55

That we're actually looking for less government in a lot of these things.

Rich Sampson: 00:32:59

And I think we went through a number of ways where we could,

Rich Sampson: 00:33:02

we're looking for the government to be a little less onerous on us.

Rich Sampson: 00:33:05

Tying those connections into ways that if we're going to have programs

Rich Sampson: 00:33:08

that, you know, if they're not really designed effectively to serve people,

Rich Sampson: 00:33:12

we can change them to be a lighter touch, and I think these three

Rich Sampson: 00:33:16

themes, at least at the federal level, along with, you know, like you said,

Rich Sampson: 00:33:20

highlighting that the good work that we're doing on a, you know, individual

Rich Sampson: 00:33:24

level where we can make connections with good stories through people.

Rich Sampson: 00:33:27

And I know, you know, the national associations like APTA and CTA do

Rich Sampson: 00:33:30

a good job of this along with all the state transit associations.

Rich Sampson: 00:33:34

The more we can share those stories and kind of find out what, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:33:37

what makes light bulbs go on for folks in Washington or the state capitol is

Rich Sampson: 00:33:42

a good, good way to go forward and, just, you know, specifically on, state

Rich Sampson: 00:33:46

funding, the, the ways that we can get out before these legislatures, and I

Rich Sampson: 00:33:50

know some of them have different cycles than others, and getting those meetings

Rich Sampson: 00:33:54

established and exactly what we'd like to see in terms of, we can realize

Rich Sampson: 00:34:00

more federal funding that's already in place, if we have better local match.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:04

but again, as you mentioned, it all comes down to building strong

Rich Sampson: 00:34:07

relationships and, Doing things like saying thanks, like you mentioned,

Rich Sampson: 00:34:11

and not always coming with an ask.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:14

sometimes it's just coming and saying, we'd like to tell you what's going

Rich Sampson: 00:34:17

on in our system, thanks to the investment you already provided for us.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:21

You know, it, it, it, if you have an ask, that's, you know, it's never a

Rich Sampson: 00:34:25

bad thing to let them know what you're looking for, but it's always a good

Rich Sampson: 00:34:28

thing to say, we really appreciate what you've done for us already.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:31

We don't have a, something you need us to do.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:33

We need you to do for us right now.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:35

We want you to come and celebrate with us on a new facility or whatever

Rich Sampson: 00:34:38

and keep those relationships going in terms of positive development.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:43

So I think those are some of the keys, going forward.

Rich Sampson: 00:34:46

And Becca, you know, if you have some other thoughts on that messaging before

Rich Sampson: 00:34:50

we take some questions and all that.

Becca Green: 00:34:52

Yeah, no, I think that's all good stuff.

Becca Green: 00:34:54

I love the phrase, transit can be a source of savings.

Becca Green: 00:34:58

I've filed that away from my toolbox because that is so true.

Becca Green: 00:35:02

And then, you know, just the, you know, not always having an ask.

Becca Green: 00:35:06

I think that's absolutely key.

Becca Green: 00:35:08

It's kind of, it's kind of like you are talking with your friends.

Becca Green: 00:35:12

You know, you don't want to always be asking your friend for something

Becca Green: 00:35:15

and be a taker all the time.

Becca Green: 00:35:17

Sometimes.

Becca Green: 00:35:17

You know, it helps elected officials have, they want wins too.

Becca Green: 00:35:22

They want to be out there.

Becca Green: 00:35:23

They want to be part of the.

Becca Green: 00:35:24

The, you know, fun, festive things, to show, when you're showing off kind of what

Becca Green: 00:35:30

your investments are bringing, be sure to always invite people, even if they, they

Becca Green: 00:35:34

really had, like a low to no involvement in the project, it never hurts, it's

Becca Green: 00:35:39

never a bad idea to invite out people.

Becca Green: 00:35:42

All of your respective local, state, and federal delegations, and they usually have

Becca Green: 00:35:47

staff members in your area, if they can't make it themselves, to come out and see,

Becca Green: 00:35:52

and that just helps build those personal relationships as you do things like

Becca Green: 00:35:56

that, when you don't have to have an ask.

Becca Green: 00:35:58

It's just a fun day where everybody gets to bask in everyone's happiness

Becca Green: 00:36:02

about a project finished, you know, so I see that we do have one

Becca Green: 00:36:06

question to start us off in the Q& A.

Becca Green: 00:36:08

from Mike Bartholomew, he's asking if, will the tariffs proposed by the President

Becca Green: 00:36:12

Elect potentially affect supply, cost, and availability, especially for BEBs?

Rich Sampson: 00:36:18

Yeah, and thanks, Mike.

Rich Sampson: 00:36:19

Good to hear from you, as always.

Rich Sampson: 00:36:21

Uh, yeah, I think that's a really good question, and unknown, in

Rich Sampson: 00:36:25

terms of how those tariffs are going to play out, you know.

Rich Sampson: 00:36:27

What actually happens is the tariff gets imposed on the domestic

Rich Sampson: 00:36:32

company that's importing that, that object or that product.

Rich Sampson: 00:36:36

and we'll see, you know, how those tariffs are imposed.

Rich Sampson: 00:36:38

Are they, are they going to be on specific sectors?

Rich Sampson: 00:36:41

You know, like, private automobiles, are they going to be on things

Rich Sampson: 00:36:45

like steel and other factors?

Rich Sampson: 00:36:46

So, you know, the, we, we talk about, you know, sometimes the Buy America provisions

Rich Sampson: 00:36:54

being onerous, and I think in a lot of ways they are, but in some ways it might

Rich Sampson: 00:36:58

shield our industry somewhat in that we were not allowed, at least if you're

Rich Sampson: 00:37:02

using federal funds, to, you know, take advantage of some of those exported,

Rich Sampson: 00:37:06

you know, international products.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:09

I think it's really a good point, you know, Michael, to monitor those, that

Rich Sampson: 00:37:13

tariffs discussion as it goes forward.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:15

The details on what sectors of the economy and industries are, you know, subject

Rich Sampson: 00:37:23

to tariffs is really unknown right now.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:25

But I do appreciate you bringing that up because it's something that obviously

Rich Sampson: 00:37:29

was a big focus of the Trump campaign, you know, especially in the final days.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:33

So we need to hear more.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:35

You know, ideas on the proposals, and that's something that from

Rich Sampson: 00:37:38

SWATA will take a good hard look at.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:40

Other thoughts, comments?

Becca Green: 00:37:42

Now we have, Sean Riley who asked in the chat, the first

Becca Green: 00:37:46

Trump Administration urged Congress to eliminate the CIG program.

Becca Green: 00:37:49

Will this be a focus of the second administration?

Rich Sampson: 00:37:52

Again, the, the proposals haven't been that granular.

Rich Sampson: 00:37:56

I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up in documents and, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:38:00

whether it's part of, as you can tell, we're, we're, we're nonpartisan here.

Rich Sampson: 00:38:03

We're not, you know, inflecting our judgments on anything.

Rich Sampson: 00:38:05

I will say that proposals to eliminate the capital investment grants program have

Rich Sampson: 00:38:10

been in most proposals from, folks who were on the right side for a long time,

Rich Sampson: 00:38:16

and generally Congress has not been in favor of getting rid of them entirely.

Rich Sampson: 00:38:21

I think much more likely, in this, my, my, my opinion, my perspective rather

Rich Sampson: 00:38:25

than any actual facts, Sean, is that, you may see, you know, a kind of hard hitting

Rich Sampson: 00:38:30

proposal to get rid of these, but in the end, it might turn into a reduction of

Rich Sampson: 00:38:35

a certain percentage in these programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:38:36

And, so I would say it's not at all impossible that they'll propose

Rich Sampson: 00:38:41

eliminating them, just like those proposals have, have suggested

Rich Sampson: 00:38:44

getting rid of Amtrak for almost 25 years now, and Amtrak still keeps

Rich Sampson: 00:38:49

on chugging, sometimes, you know, you know, struggling in doing so.

Rich Sampson: 00:38:53

So, but, again, I, I, I don't know if the Congress will have the, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:38:57

full initiative to really get rid of any of these programs altogether.

Rich Sampson: 00:39:01

before we wrap up, Doug from Denver.

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:04

Thank you very much, I appreciate that.

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:05

One thing I wanted to focus on relative to advocacy with the new administration,

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:10

we had a meeting of the American Public Transportation Association Executive

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:14

Committee over the weekend, and we had presentations by our, advisors

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:21

from Errant Fox, and, included in that discussion was the concept of being able

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:28

to communicate with the new administration that we are addressing fare evasion.

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:34

One thing that we have heard from some of the legislators, members of

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:40

Congress, is why should we be giving you more money if you aren't even

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:45

collecting the money that you're due?

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:47

And I think all of us agreed that that is a topic that we need to spend

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:53

a little more time on and address.

Doug Tisdale: 00:39:57

And we had WMATA was there and talked about, the problems that they've

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:02

had, and they have a hardened system.

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:03

We have a, an open system at RTD in Denver, and so it's not quite the

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:09

same, but I just wanted to bring that up as a topic that has, gathered

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:14

some momentum from people who have a sense of what it's going to be

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:18

like with the new administration.

Doug Tisdale: 00:40:20

Thank you.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:20

Thank you so much Doug for that insight on what's been one of

Rich Sampson: 00:40:24

the top folks at APTA hearing right now.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:26

And you know, I think that's a good, you know, beacon for us that that's an issue

Rich Sampson: 00:40:29

that we'll want to be prepared to discuss.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:32

you know, and it's such a, an issue that, you know, agencies have different

Rich Sampson: 00:40:36

approaches to from fare free, and then also the challenges of maintaining

Rich Sampson: 00:40:40

and enforcing those fare collections.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:41

But it's absolutely, urgent that we take a look at and be prepared.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:45

to have a reasonable discussion on the topic.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:48

And Doug, while I see you on camera there, congratulations on

Rich Sampson: 00:40:51

RTD's success on election day.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:53

It was great news.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:54

I've been continuing to build on the momentum you all have going there.

Rich Sampson: 00:40:57

And, Charmaine, I see,

Becca Green: 00:40:59

and before we go to the next question, I'll just jump in there and say,

Becca Green: 00:41:02

Doug, I hear you, and I'll just say, as someone who took advantage last summer

Becca Green: 00:41:07

of the fare free rides that you did in the summer to promote your ridership,

Becca Green: 00:41:13

Colorado being one of my favorite states to visit, I would say that there's

Becca Green: 00:41:17

an untapped message there about the marketing and tourism potential that such

Becca Green: 00:41:22

things do, because it made it very easy.

Becca Green: 00:41:25

For the first time, I took my in laws after trying to get them to go with us for

Becca Green: 00:41:30

years, and it made everything so seamless, and, and, you know, that is a golden

Becca Green: 00:41:36

tourism opportunity, and, and we're, we're coming to your state and spending our

Becca Green: 00:41:40

discretionary dollars, so for every, for every naysayer out there who's an elected

Becca Green: 00:41:46

official talking about where's the skin in the game, The skin in the game is me

Becca Green: 00:41:50

coming to a town for four or five days and spending my discretionary dollars.

Becca Green: 00:41:55

So, you know, there's always a way to kind of attack that,

Becca Green: 00:41:58

that, kind of message, but, yes.

Becca Green: 00:42:00

And when we had something similar happen when we went fare free with

Becca Green: 00:42:03

our streetcar, years ago, but it absolutely skyrocketed ridership.

Becca Green: 00:42:08

And when you have numbers and results like that, it makes it really hard to

Becca Green: 00:42:11

argue with the, the sense in doing it.

Becca Green: 00:42:14

I mean, you know, before that, we only took cash on those street cars and who

Becca Green: 00:42:18

carries cash and, you know, this century.

Becca Green: 00:42:22

So it was just a really good thing for us to do.

Becca Green: 00:42:26

And I think the backside of that is keeping, keeping reminding people

Becca Green: 00:42:30

of those success stories of what can happen when you take a chance like that.

Becca Green: 00:42:35

But okay, we'll go to Charmaine for her question.

Charmaine Manaois: 00:42:38

So I have a question about some of the grant programs

Charmaine Manaois: 00:42:41

that are appropriated till 2026.

Charmaine Manaois: 00:42:43

Are most of those likely going to drop off next year, or do you think they'll still

Charmaine Manaois: 00:42:49

be, there's a chance we'll still have it, but amount would probably be reduced?

Rich Sampson: 00:42:55

I think, you know, if you're talking about, you know, certainly the

Rich Sampson: 00:42:57

formula programs 5307, 5310, and 5311, for urban, specialized, and rural, I feel very

Rich Sampson: 00:43:04

strongly that those, those programs will, be close to where we expect them to be at.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:09

Of course, there's a chance, That there might be a government wide, you know,

Rich Sampson: 00:43:13

we want to reduce spending by this amount across all federal programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:17

I would say that'd be the most likely scenario for those programs, Charmaine.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:21

But anything can happen, of course.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:23

It's a, you know, brand new government that, you know, at least perceives

Rich Sampson: 00:43:27

itself as having a pretty strong mandate to do a lot of work, so.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:31

We'll have to see, you know, where, where things, you know, end up, but my

Rich Sampson: 00:43:36

instinct is those programs are going to be fairly comfortable, but anything

Rich Sampson: 00:43:41

that has more of a discretionary, competitive elements, we talked about

Rich Sampson: 00:43:45

,the capital investment programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:47

Some other ones that I didn't mention earlier are the RAISE grants.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:50

Yes.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:51

And, oh, there's another big all capital letters funding program.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:54

There's RCE2.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:55

Yeah.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:55

You know, those programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:43:57

I think you could have a potential, for new, new grant awards to be really reduced

Rich Sampson: 00:44:04

or changed in focus from, you know, mostly more so transit to more so highways.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:09

That is something that could definitely play out in those very specialized

Rich Sampson: 00:44:13

programs, one of which used to be called, like, TIGER and, you know, kind

Rich Sampson: 00:44:16

of the evolution of those programs.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:18

Yeah, I think those big, discretionary competitive programs, could be subject.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:24

I'm not sure that there's much of a risk is if you've already

Rich Sampson: 00:44:27

received an award, That they would go back on that commitment.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:31

I think that's generally been considered bad faith by the government to award

Rich Sampson: 00:44:35

projects on a multi year, full funding, a grant agreement, and then for those to be

Rich Sampson: 00:44:40

rescinded, once they're kind of in play.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:42

again, that's not something that I have a ton of expertise or familiarity on, but

Rich Sampson: 00:44:46

I would say if you've already received a RAISE grant or something like that, That,

Rich Sampson: 00:44:50

the government will probably pay that out.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:53

The levels that are available for future iterations on that,

Rich Sampson: 00:44:56

could be, could be concerning.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:58

Thank you.

Rich Sampson: 00:44:59

Did that answer your question, Charmaine?

Charmaine Manaois: 00:45:00

Yes, yes.

Charmaine Manaois: 00:45:01

I was leaning more towards the discretionary grants curiosity.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:04

Yeah, so, you know, I think anything that has a, always has

Rich Sampson: 00:45:08

a big acronym title is something that you might want to be following closely.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:13

And then, I see Jose is asking about, clawbacks of any unused COVID era funding?

Rich Sampson: 00:45:18

I would say yes.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:19

If you still have COVID era funding, that those would be prime candidates for

Rich Sampson: 00:45:26

rescission of funds that are unobligated.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:29

So yeah, I would be concerned about those.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:32

Hopefully that you're not sitting on too many of those dollars left,

Rich Sampson: 00:45:35

but yeah, Jose, I'd agree with that.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:37

There is some concern in that area.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:39

So thank, thanks for that question.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:41

Anyone else before we, wrap things up here today?

Rich Sampson: 00:45:43

And, again, please feel free to reach out to myself, and any of the SWATA staff,

Rich Sampson: 00:45:48

along with our Board of Directors, or Becca in a role as a Legislative Committee

Rich Sampson: 00:45:53

Chair, and that there's, questions, concerns you have about things going

Rich Sampson: 00:45:56

on in Washington that you'd really like us to be paying attention to.

Rich Sampson: 00:45:59

You, you know, If you heard about a potential, you know, challenge to one of

Rich Sampson: 00:46:03

our programs, let us know so that we can, A, focus our attention, and B, get your

Rich Sampson: 00:46:07

input on how to respond to those things.

Rich Sampson: 00:46:09

So, Becca, any final thoughts here?

Becca Green: 00:46:12

I think I would just lean in hard to the message, the true

Becca Green: 00:46:16

message that, transit is non partisan.

Becca Green: 00:46:18

Transit is affecting people from all sides and everything in

Becca Green: 00:46:22

between on the political spectrum.

Becca Green: 00:46:24

And I think it's also important to remember when you're pursuing

Becca Green: 00:46:28

grants and talking with your federal delegation that they want

Becca Green: 00:46:31

to make your state look good too.

Becca Green: 00:46:33

You know, and, and they, they have a point of pride about making sure that

Becca Green: 00:46:37

your state gets the things that they need.

Becca Green: 00:46:39

They should get.

Becca Green: 00:46:40

So, keep that in mind because, you know, Rock Region Metro is in

Becca Green: 00:46:44

the Little Rock urbanized area.

Becca Green: 00:46:46

Little Rock is a blue dot and a red state, in, speaking in political

Becca Green: 00:46:51

terms, and we get along great with our delegation because we're all

Becca Green: 00:46:55

Arkansans at the end of the day.

Becca Green: 00:46:56

And we want what's best for our voting constituents, and

Becca Green: 00:47:00

the ones who don't vote, too.

Becca Green: 00:47:02

We want what's best for everyone who lives here.

Becca Green: 00:47:05

And so, your federal delegation is still beholden to votes,

Becca Green: 00:47:09

and anything can happen.

Becca Green: 00:47:10

You know, Arkansas used to be a blue state, and it could be

Becca Green: 00:47:14

a blue state again someday.

Becca Green: 00:47:15

So it's in everybody's best interest to make sure that they're taking care of

Becca Green: 00:47:18

constituents, taking care of our veterans, our senior citizens, our students,

Becca Green: 00:47:23

people who need to get to jobs, that is just critical for, for having a healthy

Becca Green: 00:47:27

state that runs well, and I think that the federal government and your federal

Becca Green: 00:47:32

delegation is quite aware of that.

Becca Green: 00:47:33

So, so lean into those messages.

Becca Green: 00:47:35

you know, they, you might be surprised at, at how much your delegation will

Becca Green: 00:47:40

help you out because, it's also true and it's also a cliche, but it's true.

Becca Green: 00:47:44

It's a cliche because it's true.

Becca Green: 00:47:45

That all politics is local, and in a small state like Arkansas, we're very lucky and

Becca Green: 00:47:51

fortunate to know all of our delegation pretty intimately because of that, but you

Becca Green: 00:47:56

could have just as good of a relationship, even if you're from a bigger state,

Becca Green: 00:48:00

by putting in those time investments, like I said, look for easy wins, try to

Becca Green: 00:48:04

invite your team out to different things that you're doing, and And even if you

Becca Green: 00:48:08

don't get the top brass there, you'll get some friends in the administration,

Becca Green: 00:48:11

which is, which is what it's all about.

Becca Green: 00:48:13

So thanks for joining us again today.

Becca Green: 00:48:15

This was a good way to kind of prep and get our mindset ready for the New Year.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:20

Yeah.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:20

Thanks, Becca.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:21

Appreciate you joining us.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:22

And.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:23

For everybody, just, yeah, two points of optimism, you know, no

Rich Sampson: 00:48:25

matter where you stand politically.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:27

A, we have a bill that's in place for two more years, and B, transit impacts

Rich Sampson: 00:48:32

stuff that you're already doing.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:33

So, no matter what that elected official's priorities are, we're working on that.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:39

We are serving those people, whether they're veterans or businesses

Rich Sampson: 00:48:42

or the environment or schools.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:44

Whatever you care most about, transit has a role in making

Rich Sampson: 00:48:47

that better in your community.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:48

So, thank you.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:49

Two really positives, for you to kind of, no matter where you stand,

Rich Sampson: 00:48:52

we have those things going forward.

Rich Sampson: 00:48:54

So, thanks again for joining us here today with SWTA and, we

Rich Sampson: 00:48:57

hope to see you soon in Tucson.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:02

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit

Tris Hussey: 00:49:05

Unplugged and thank you to Rich Sampson, Becca Green and everyone

Tris Hussey: 00:49:09

at SWTA for sharing the recording of their legislative update with us.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:14

So we could share it with all of you.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:16

Now coming up next week, we have an episode that I think absolutely typifies

Tris Hussey: 00:49:22

how public transit and especially paratransit makes a huge difference in

Tris Hussey: 00:49:27

the lives of people in your community.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:30

We have Eileen Collins Turvey talking about the things she's doing in

Tris Hussey: 00:49:35

Portland that will truly blow your mind.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:38

Like giving paratransit customers Instacart subscriptions.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:43

So they can have groceries come to them.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:46

Them.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:46

Instead of having to go and spend time in the grocery store shopping themselves

Tris Hussey: 00:49:51

and believe it or not, it saves a ton.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:54

Ton of money.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:56

Really need to listen to this and.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:58

And.

Tris Hussey: 00:49:59

Have a pad of paper ready?

Tris Hussey: 00:50:00

Because you're going to want to take notes.

Tris Hussey: 00:50:02

Transit unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

Tris Hussey: 00:50:04

So.

Tris Hussey: 00:50:05

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

Tris Hussey: 00:50:08

And at Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

Tris Hussey: 00:50:13

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.