Holly Arnold her path to the top job and managing the largest P3 in the U.S.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:03

Do you work for a public transit agency now and w

Paul Comfort: 00:00:06

ant to move up the career ladder, maybe even to the top position?

Paul Comfort: 00:00:09

I'm Paul Comfort, and on this episode of Transit Unplugged,

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we talk with Holly Arnold.

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She is the administrator of the Maryland Transit Administration, a

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statewide agency which also oversees the Baltimore City Transit System.

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And Holly describes her move up the career ladder at the MTA through

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various positions, from the budget and planning department, grants, up through

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overseeing engineering and then to the top job as administrator of the MTA.

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I think you'll find it a great career path to study and look at as

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you look at your own career path.

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She also describes the agency itself.

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It's a massive multimodal agency with six modes, bus, light rail, a

Paul Comfort: 00:00:47

subway system, commuter train service, commuter bus service, and paratransit.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:51

She describes some of the big projects they're working on, including the

Paul Comfort: 00:00:53

nation's largest still, public private partnership with the Purple Line, a

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16 mile light rail line being built on the outskirts of Washington D.

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C.

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that the MTA is overseeing.

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Plus, some big work being done on their subway, the B& O Tunnel, and

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the brand new Red Line coming back.

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All that, a great interview with Holly Arnold, Administrator of the Maryland

Paul Comfort: 00:01:12

Transit Administration in Baltimore.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:17

Great to have Holly Arnold with us today on the podcast.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:20

Holly is Administrator of the MTA, the Maryland Transit

Paul Comfort: 00:01:23

Administration in Baltimore.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:24

Holly, thanks for being with us.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:26

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:26

Thanks for having me.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:27

I appreciate it.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:27

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:28

Holly was on one of our, uh, Transit Unplugged live events,

Paul Comfort: 00:01:31

uh, within the last year or so.

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And so great to have you now with, uh, with your own episode of the

Paul Comfort: 00:01:36

podcast on Transit Unplugged.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:38

first off, Holly, why don't you just describe the MTA itself?

Paul Comfort: 00:01:41

I think it's so unique, uh, these statewide agencies.

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there's a few of them, especially in the Northeast Corridor.

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that aren't standalone authorities like WMATA or SEPTA or whatever, but they

Paul Comfort: 00:01:51

actually work for the state government.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:53

Tell us about the agency some there and your role.

Holly Arnold: 00:01:55

Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Arnold: 00:01:55

So yeah, as you noted, MTA is um, a state, part of the state DOT.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:00

So we report up to the Secretary of Transportation here in Maryland.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:04

And we are fairly unique as one of the larger agencies,

Holly Arnold: 00:02:07

um, being part of a state DOT.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:09

so that means that we're responsible for essentially being

Holly Arnold: 00:02:12

the transit provider in Baltimore.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:13

So here in Baltimore City, we pro in the Baltimore region.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:16

We provide, um, our light rail, uh, metro subway, our core

Holly Arnold: 00:02:20

bus and paratransit service.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:22

and then statewide, we have a fairly comprehensive and large

Holly Arnold: 00:02:25

commuter bus network, as well as three, um, MARC commuter rail

Holly Arnold: 00:02:29

lines that we provide service to.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:31

And then outside of that, because we're part of the state DOT and we're the

Holly Arnold: 00:02:33

federally designated recipient, for funds, we provide technical support

Holly Arnold: 00:02:37

and assistance to all of the locally operated transit systems in each of

Holly Arnold: 00:02:41

Maryland's 23 counties and Baltimore City.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:43

it's a lot on the plate.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:44

I mean, uh, when I was there, I think it was the 11th largest

Paul Comfort: 00:02:47

transit system in America.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:49

Do you know where you rank now on ridership and that kind of stuff yet?

Holly Arnold: 00:02:52

I know we're still pretty high up there.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:53

I think we're at the top 15.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:55

Um, and yeah, and one thing I actually didn't even mention is

Holly Arnold: 00:02:57

we're also building the Purple Line.

Holly Arnold: 00:02:58

So the, still the largest transit, uh, public private partnership.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:01

partnership project in the country outside of Washington, D.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:05

C.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:05

Between Montgomery and Prince George's County.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:07

So yeah, it's a huge portfolio, but we've got a great team and all working

Holly Arnold: 00:03:11

together to deliver that service.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:12

a couple little notes, I'd want to mention is, uh, you're,

Paul Comfort: 00:03:15

you've got a great new Secretary of Transportation here in Maryland.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:17

You want to say anything about him?

Holly Arnold: 00:03:19

So, uh, Secretary Wiedefeld, uh, we're so lucky to have him.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:22

Uh, he has experience working at MTA.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:25

He was in my role at MTA actually back when I very first started, uh, in 2009.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:30

Um, he has a great experience at, uh, Washington Metro.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:33

Um, and then outside of that, he worked at the airport.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:35

Um, so he has a, uh, Tremendous amount of knowledge and experience here in Maryland.

Holly Arnold: 00:03:39

So I'm lucky to bounce things off of him.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:41

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:41

Paul Wiedefeld is just an amazing guy and was the right guy at the right time,

Paul Comfort: 00:03:45

I think for this new administration.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:47

Uh, and so happy he's there because you know, he really knows Maryland

Paul Comfort: 00:03:51

as well as knows his subject matter.

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So that's great.

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talk about your responsibilities some, Holly.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:55

I mean, you've just painted a really large portfolio.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:58

I mean, basically, you're the administrator of a state agency,

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but you're also general manager of the Baltimore City Transit System.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:05

and you have other responsibilities as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:07

Talk about what you, kind of like, what your day is like and what you oversee.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:10

Yes, absolutely.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:11

I mean, so the, I think the largest part that takes a lot of time is the

Holly Arnold: 00:04:14

kind of general manager of the day to day here in Baltimore City, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:17

Like we have, uh, you know, operations, we have 800 buses, we have over

Holly Arnold: 00:04:21

a hundred rail cars that are out providing service every day and

Holly Arnold: 00:04:23

making sure that we're supporting the employees who are out doing that.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:26

Um, we have, you know, uh, close to 300, 000 riders every day.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:30

So again, making sure that they have the support and the service that they

Holly Arnold: 00:04:32

need, uh, to get where they're going.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:34

there's also the policy aspect, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:36

So thinking about that, that statewide, piece, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:38

So thinking about, you know, uh, bus rapid transit in the counties.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:41

What does that look like?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:42

What is MTA's level of support on that?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:44

we're considering, uh, working with, uh, Charles and Prince George's

Holly Arnold: 00:04:47

Counties to build a rapid transit line down in Southern Maryland, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:50

And so what is MTA's role there?

Holly Arnold: 00:04:52

How are we going to interact and engage, um, with a, a rail line that's so,

Holly Arnold: 00:04:56

or a, a bus line that's so far from kind of where our core service is.

Holly Arnold: 00:04:59

Um, same thing with, you know, Purple Line, uh, is a, a tremendous,

Holly Arnold: 00:05:02

uh, amount of responsibility.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:04

We have a fantastic team down there.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:06

You know, we spent the past year really making some changes, uh, in

Holly Arnold: 00:05:09

our team and the consultant team.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:11

And we brought in that new design builder in 2022.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:14

And so just really kind of gearing up.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:15

We've got the fantastic team down there that's leading things, but I still need

Holly Arnold: 00:05:18

to kind of help out with like the budget piece and the tying and endeavor and

Holly Arnold: 00:05:21

everything else that we have going on.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:23

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:23

Let's, let's unpack that just a little bit because it is so unique, I think.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:27

And this is the way a lot of large agencies operate is they'll have a

Paul Comfort: 00:05:30

separate kind of group or department handling this, these massive big projects.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:35

Tell us about how that's organized.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:37

The purple line.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:38

Yeah, so we have a we do kind of have a separate arms.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:40

We have our transit development delivery group that is set

Holly Arnold: 00:05:43

up to deliver mega projects.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:46

So right for a long time, it's only had the Purple Line.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:48

Recently, we hired our senior project director for the Red Line.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:52

We'll be bringing someone on for Southern Maryland Rapid Transit as well.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:54

So excited to kind of really build that out.

Holly Arnold: 00:05:56

Um, but yeah, so the Purple Line team, uh, it's a small, but mighty team

Holly Arnold: 00:06:00

that works down there to get things going supported by, uh, consultants.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:04

So we have a PMC and GEC consultant that really make up the bulk of the staff to

Holly Arnold: 00:06:09

oversee the work and because it is a P3.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:11

So we have our concessionaire partner that is responsible for delivering

Holly Arnold: 00:06:14

the project and underneath them, they have a design build contractor.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:17

Who's mostly who we're working with right now.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:20

Um, but we're also, there's the operations piece, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:06:22

Like we.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:22

Not just building this, we have to have an operations component long term.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:25

And so we've really started to dive in with Purple Line Transit operators and

Holly Arnold: 00:06:29

thinking about how they're going to be operating and how they're making those

Holly Arnold: 00:06:31

decisions, you know, nitty gritty stuff.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:34

Like what is the horn and bell policy as they go through a tunnel?

Holly Arnold: 00:06:37

But Hey, that's what, that's what, uh, the communities care about.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:40

And so making sure that we, you know, we're addressing those things

Holly Arnold: 00:06:42

now and starting to think about it.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:44

And is it still a 16.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:46

2 light rail line around the suburbs of D.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:48

C.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:49

connecting into Washington Metro?

Holly Arnold: 00:06:50

Yes.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:51

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:51

So it makes connections at multiple Metro stations, all three MARC

Holly Arnold: 00:06:54

lines, Amtrak, commuter bus, and the local transit services.

Holly Arnold: 00:06:58

So it's a huge connector in that region.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:01

Public private partnerships really had their

Paul Comfort: 00:07:03

heyday, I think, in the last decade.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:05

And through the pandemic, of course, like everything else,

Paul Comfort: 00:07:07

there was issues with them.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:09

Do you still think it's a good way to handle megaprojects like this?

Holly Arnold: 00:07:13

I think you've got to take each project individually

Holly Arnold: 00:07:15

and think them through.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:16

Um, you know, I was at MTA when the decision was made, but I

Holly Arnold: 00:07:19

wasn't part of that discussion.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:21

You know, I understand why that was the choice that was made for this project.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:24

I think right hindsight's always 20 20.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:26

We've had some issues with it, but you know, we've got a good design build

Holly Arnold: 00:07:29

partner and a concessionaire on board now.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:31

And I think we're in a really good place with all the changes

Holly Arnold: 00:07:34

we've made over the past couple of years to get the project done.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:37

And that's really what we care about, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:07:38

Like, let's get the project done.

Holly Arnold: 00:07:39

Let's get some people riding it because it will be such a fantastic connector

Holly Arnold: 00:07:43

for the communities that need it in Montgomery and Prince George's.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:45

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:45

I'm super excited about it.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:47

I always, always believe in that project.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:49

So, um, you mentioned you were at MTA, but you weren't part

Paul Comfort: 00:07:52

of the, uh, part of the team.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:53

So let's, let's dive into your career path a little bit,

Paul Comfort: 00:07:56

because I think it's fascinating.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:57

I remember, uh, when I got there, I don't know what, I think

Paul Comfort: 00:08:01

it was 2016 as administrator.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:03

And you were at the time, I think the director of capital budgets and

Paul Comfort: 00:08:07

one of the very first meetings I had.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:09

I'd never run a large transit agency before, but I tell the story a lot.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:12

I remember, you know, all these folks coming in and you would

Paul Comfort: 00:08:16

set this meeting up because you were head of capital budgets.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:19

Uh, and they were, we had like 145 capital projects going on, I think at the time.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:23

So you brought in the top 50 projects.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:26

And I think it took two days to sit in a room with all

Paul Comfort: 00:08:28

these folks and listen to them.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:30

Pitch their, you know, project, where it's at, and then at the end, you and

Paul Comfort: 00:08:34

Kevin Quinn, uh, who was ahead of plenty of time, came up to me and said, okay,

Paul Comfort: 00:08:37

Paul, so as you saw today, we've wrapped up, you know, this project, that project,

Paul Comfort: 00:08:41

and that project, and there, uh, there's some money left over in their budgets.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:45

It's like 10 million dollars.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:46

What would you like to do with that?

Paul Comfort: 00:08:48

And I was like, Well, how about a big party?

Paul Comfort: 00:08:51

That didn't seem to fly.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:52

So, but instead, you know, you would kind of rank what the other projects were

Paul Comfort: 00:08:55

that didn't make the budget that year.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:57

And we could, we could then go ahead and fund some of those.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:00

Walk us through what I want you to do, if you don't mind is walk us through

Paul Comfort: 00:09:03

your, your career path and how you chose what you were going to do next.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:07

And then maybe delve into a couple of those, You know, responsibilities,

Paul Comfort: 00:09:11

because a lot of folks that listen to this are looking to grow their career.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:14

They're currently mid level managers or staff at transit agencies.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:18

You've kind of been through, uh, a number of positions at the same agency

Paul Comfort: 00:09:22

and grown, you know, just like it should be done in my opinion, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:09:25

By the time you were, you were MTA administrator, I mean, you probably

Paul Comfort: 00:09:28

knew the agency better than anybody.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:29

Uh, and so it made sense to have you in that role just for that.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:33

Not, not even talking about your leadership abilities, et cetera, but

Paul Comfort: 00:09:36

walk us through that if you would.

Holly Arnold: 00:09:37

Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Arnold: 00:09:38

So I started at MTA actually as a contract employee back in 2009 under,

Holly Arnold: 00:09:43

uh, then Administrator Wiedefeld, um, and I started out, I was a Grants

Holly Arnold: 00:09:47

Administrator, and so my job was we would get these ginormous paper invoices and

Holly Arnold: 00:09:52

go through page by page, put a stamp on it, and identify what grant was

Holly Arnold: 00:09:55

supposed to be funded, what product was supposed to be funded by what grant.

Holly Arnold: 00:09:59

so yeah, I very much did Very low level starting out kind

Holly Arnold: 00:10:01

of working, uh, on day to day.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:03

It was a great experience, though, because I get to understand the federal process,

Holly Arnold: 00:10:07

what the Federal Transit Administration was looking for, understanding what

Holly Arnold: 00:10:11

projects could be funded by what grants, and I loved what I got to put

Holly Arnold: 00:10:14

together when I became the Capital Program Manager after a couple years.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:17

The it was almost like a puzzle being able to identify these are the

Holly Arnold: 00:10:20

different funding sources that we have.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:21

These are the different projects.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:22

This is when it's going to be spending and identify how do we make this work?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:26

How do we get the most bang for our buck as we're as we're

Holly Arnold: 00:10:29

moving our projects forward?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:30

And how do we advance the agency?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:32

and that job was also fantastic too, because.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:34

You really do get to know the entire agency, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:37

Like at a transit agency, the capital budget is involved in everything, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:40

Like you're not buying or building anything without

Holly Arnold: 00:10:43

the capital group involved.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:45

And you know, one of the things that I did, and I really recommend to anyone

Holly Arnold: 00:10:47

going forward is just, I asked a lot of questions and took advantage of like,

Holly Arnold: 00:10:51

hey, I want to see this project like we're building this thing and it's really cool.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:55

Can I come out and see it while it's under construction?

Holly Arnold: 00:10:57

And so I did that.

Holly Arnold: 00:10:59

I remember, um, when our, it was MARC locomotives that were coming in at

Holly Arnold: 00:11:03

the time and I, um, asked the team, like, Hey, can I come see these?

Holly Arnold: 00:11:07

And there's a picture of me, you know, way back when, uh, sitting in a MARC

Holly Arnold: 00:11:11

locomotive, like, pretending to drive it.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:12

Um, but it was really awesome because I get to know the projects, I get to

Holly Arnold: 00:11:15

know the importance of the projects.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:17

I got to understand timelines, um, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:11:18

So, like, you know, utilities, anytime that's gonna, where you have to deal

Holly Arnold: 00:11:21

with a utility, it's gonna take a little bit of extra time and understand

Holly Arnold: 00:11:24

the impacts of some of those things.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:26

so I spent a lot of time in the capital program group, again, really getting to

Holly Arnold: 00:11:29

know the agency and how the agency worked.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:31

I became, uh, the director of planning in, um, 2017.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:35

And so that was, again, a really pivotal time.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:38

You know, we were launching BaltimoreLink, the bus network redesign.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:42

Um, work closely with Kevin and was able to, um, take on kind of the student

Holly Arnold: 00:11:46

outreach before school started, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:11:48

So we basically had kind of two launches for BaltimoreLink.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:51

One was the summer launch where we changed everything.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:53

And then that fall students were coming back and they may not

Holly Arnold: 00:11:56

have ridden the system before.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:57

And so we had to make sure that they knew where they were going.

Holly Arnold: 00:11:59

They knew what bus route to get on.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:01

And so I spent a lot of time working through that as well.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:03

I was a director planning for about two years.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:06

Um, my biggest kind of most exciting project that I did there outside of

Holly Arnold: 00:12:09

Baltimore link was, um, the Central Maryland regional transit plan.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:12

So this was a legislatively mandated plan to look at, uh, 25 years,

Holly Arnold: 00:12:17

um, 5 counties and Baltimore City.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:20

Um, like what is our goal and desire for the region and

Holly Arnold: 00:12:23

where do we want to be going?

Holly Arnold: 00:12:25

Um, so it was really fun to work with, uh, with there's a commission that

Holly Arnold: 00:12:28

was established with the local elected officials to identify, you know, what

Holly Arnold: 00:12:32

are we looking at to move forward?

Holly Arnold: 00:12:34

And, you know, we identified a number of corridors.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:36

Um, we did a corridor study, which was the East West corridor study, which has

Holly Arnold: 00:12:39

now kind of been revamped as the revived red line, um, and then a North South one,

Holly Arnold: 00:12:44

uh, from Towson to downtown Baltimore, both of which are moving forward.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:47

We also looked at additional dedicated bus lanes, additional TSP,

Holly Arnold: 00:12:51

um, shelters, and then a big one for me is, uh, accessible stops.

Holly Arnold: 00:12:55

Um, so one of the things that I learned in that report is only, I think it

Holly Arnold: 00:12:59

was 19 percent of bus stops in this Baltimore region were accessible, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:13:04

So that is, that is not a good number.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:06

Um, and so we've been working with Baltimore city on that.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:08

Um, but we've also been putting our, our money where our mouth is and MTA is

Holly Arnold: 00:13:12

investing about 20 million in making, um, over 200 bus stops, um, ADA accessible.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:17

Um, cause we want to make sure that everyone can use transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:19

Yeah, that's great.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:21

so then after I was a director of planning for

Holly Arnold: 00:13:23

a little bit, um, our deputy administrator position came open.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:26

And so that one was responsible for planning, engineering, uh, real estate

Holly Arnold: 00:13:31

and our local transit support group.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:33

Um, and so that one was definitely a tough choice for me to say like,

Holly Arnold: 00:13:37

yes, I want to go for this role.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:38

I'm not an engineer and overseeing engineering and construction

Holly Arnold: 00:13:41

was a little intimidating.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:43

Um, but, you know, I said like, hey, I want to take this on.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:45

I want to do it.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:46

You know, there's a number of things I get frustrated with engineers, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:13:49

Like, I love engineers.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:50

They're fantastic, but they're engineers.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:52

And so I was like, let me let me see what I can do to kind of change some

Holly Arnold: 00:13:55

of those things and work with them.

Holly Arnold: 00:13:56

And so I took on the deputy administrator role in 2019 and did that for.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:02

a couple years before, um, throughout the pandemic, which was, which was very

Holly Arnold: 00:14:05

interesting to see how things changed and, and that some of the challenges

Holly Arnold: 00:14:09

that the team was going through with the supply chain and how do you do

Holly Arnold: 00:14:12

construction when you can't have a morning safety briefing because you can't have

Holly Arnold: 00:14:15

everyone in the room together, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:14:18

Like a lot of things that really came up with the team that we had to work through.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:22

Um, but you know, challenges that were overcome and the team did a great job on.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:26

Um, and then in 2021, um, I was asked to take on the role of acting

Holly Arnold: 00:14:30

administrator, um, here at MTA.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:32

And so, um, that was very exciting.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:35

I was seven months pregnant at the time.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:36

So, uh, I think it was, you know, during the pandemic, a lot of people didn't

Holly Arnold: 00:14:41

realize cause they only saw me from, uh, you know, neck up on the screen.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:45

And then I went out and was meeting operators and kind of waddling around.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:49

But I will say, uh, It's a, it's a good way to get to know people and

Holly Arnold: 00:14:53

get to know people as a person, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:14:55

They see me, yes, I'm the administrator, but also I'm like, I'm, I'm a person.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:59

I'm a mom.

Holly Arnold: 00:14:59

And so, you know, we still, people always ask how, um, how my daughter's doing

Holly Arnold: 00:15:03

. Paul Comfort: Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:04

It humanizes you or something.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:05

Exactly.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:06

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:06

It's really fantastic.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:07

That's pretty cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:08

Can we take one quick step back on the engineering job?

Paul Comfort: 00:15:11

Uh, and then we'll dive into some of your current projects.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:13

I was hoping you could kind of unpack.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:15

What engineering departments do at transit agencies?

Paul Comfort: 00:15:18

We haven't really covered that a lot on the podcast, but they're so important.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:21

Absolutely.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:22

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:22

I mean, so we, you know, we need engineers to do the designs for,

Holly Arnold: 00:15:25

for kind of get all those major capital projects that we're doing.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:28

so at MTA, uh, we have multiple groups within our engineering department.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:32

Um, so we have a systems engineering group that basically handles our

Holly Arnold: 00:15:36

vehicles and all of the systems, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:15:38

The signal systems and the, a lot of the IT network, the phone network, things

Holly Arnold: 00:15:41

that kind of talk to each other there.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:44

Um, we have a civil group, uh, kind of civil and ADA that does really

Holly Arnold: 00:15:48

what you would think in terms of kind of civil construction.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:50

So they do our roofs and our parking lots, different projects like that.

Holly Arnold: 00:15:53

And then we have a track and structures group that is responsible for, uh,

Holly Arnold: 00:15:57

you know, ensuring that the track is maintained and then that the

Holly Arnold: 00:15:59

structure is like our, our bridges and the stations and everything else.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:04

Um, we also have a construction team, so they oversee, we don't do any of our

Holly Arnold: 00:16:08

own construction, but they oversee the contractors that come in and ensure that.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:13

You know, they're doing the right things in the right places,

Holly Arnold: 00:16:15

submitting everything correctly.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:16

Um, we have a QA QC team that kind of oversees all of that to make sure we're

Holly Arnold: 00:16:20

following our, our processes throughout.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:23

yeah, I mean, the engineers really are key to ensuring that we're

Holly Arnold: 00:16:25

able to deliver our projects.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:27

They, um, write the design documents.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:29

They kind of oversee the procurement.

Holly Arnold: 00:16:31

And then even once it's under construction, they're still involved with

Holly Arnold: 00:16:34

the project to ensure that it's, it's being, you know, done in the way that

Holly Arnold: 00:16:37

was, was originally designed and planned.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:39

And does MTA, like most agencies, uh, have contracts with

Paul Comfort: 00:16:42

some of the big engineering firms?

Holly Arnold: 00:16:45

Yes, yeah, you name the, the firm, I think we've got

Holly Arnold: 00:16:47

them on contract here, so yeah, we, we appreciate the support of

Holly Arnold: 00:16:50

all of our, you know, consultant, uh, employees that help us out.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:53

It's such a, uh, important but behind the scenes part

Paul Comfort: 00:16:56

of any large agency that I wanted to give you a chance to talk about

Paul Comfort: 00:16:59

it since you had overseen that.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:00

Thank you.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:01

And speaking of the big projects that, uh, that the engineering department

Paul Comfort: 00:17:05

works on, let's talk about a couple of those that you're working on now.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:07

Let's start off with the B& O Tunnel.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:09

Uh, this is such an important project.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:12

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:12

So this is the, um, within partnership with Amtrak.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:15

So it's Amtrak owns the tunnel.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:16

Uh, it is, uh, over 150 years old.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:19

Um, the oldest tunnel that they inherited when they, when they became Amtrak.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:23

and, the one stat that I love is that I think when it was built, uh, Ulysses S.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:26

Grant was president, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:17:28

Yeah, that's right.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:29

He takes it back a little bit.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:30

Civil war era.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:31

Yes, uh, exactly.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:32

So it is a very old tunnel.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:35

still safe to operate today, but definitely a lot of issues with it

Holly Arnold: 00:17:39

doesn't have obviously any sort of modern kind of life safety features.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:42

Uh, there's a lot of issues with flooding.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:44

so very much needs to be replaced.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:46

What about the roof height?

Paul Comfort: 00:17:47

Are they still going to go up with that some?

Holly Arnold: 00:17:48

no.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:49

So we're, but so we are looking at kind of replacing the tunnel

Holly Arnold: 00:17:51

with a new tunnel that will.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:53

Oh.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:53

Change the curve, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:17:55

So it's a pretty quick curve right now.

Holly Arnold: 00:17:56

So like, but with a more gradual curve, we'll allow for faster travel time.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:00

Again, it has water and life safety.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:02

And, you know, thank you to the, the Biden Harris administration.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:05

Uh, the Federal Railroad Administration awarded, you know, more than $4

Holly Arnold: 00:18:08

billion to Amtrak, uh, for the tunnel.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:11

MTAs, uh, contributing 450 million to that . Okay.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:14

Um, and the other big piece of that project, which I'm very excited

Holly Arnold: 00:18:17

about, uh, again, going back to accessibility, we're gonna get a new.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:20

Finally, ADA accessible West Baltimore Mark Station, uh, which is something that

Holly Arnold: 00:18:24

we've been talking about for a really long time, um, and so that will be fantastic

Holly Arnold: 00:18:28

for the communities there, um, we're looking at, you know, the Red Line would

Holly Arnold: 00:18:31

also come in there, so a great opportunity for transit oriented development, and

Holly Arnold: 00:18:34

just, I think it could be, it should be a game changer for the communities.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:37

And you've got a subway there.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:39

Um, and, uh, talk, talk to us about what's happening there.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:42

We do.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:42

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:43

A lot of people forget that Baltimore has a subway, including folks who live here.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:46

And so that's one of the best kept secrets that I'm trying

Holly Arnold: 00:18:48

to make sure is not a secret.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:50

That folks have a really fantastic way to get around town.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:54

But yeah, so we have on our subway system, it is 40 years old.

Holly Arnold: 00:18:57

And so we are in the process of replacing the vehicles and the signal system.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:01

Um, you know, they're just kind of aged out.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:03

The vehicles themselves need to be replaced.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:05

And so we received, uh, so we have a contract for, for both of those.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:09

Um, the signal system installation has been in the works for

Holly Arnold: 00:19:12

the past couple of years.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:13

Uh, they're about ready to kind of flip the switch on that.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:15

And we're also receiving the new vehicles.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:17

The first test vehicle came last, uh, last year, going through the

Holly Arnold: 00:19:22

testing now on the test track and should be going into service in 2025

Holly Arnold: 00:19:27

. Paul Comfort: Awesome.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:28

Now let's switch to the future.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:29

So you got some other big things coming up.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:31

talk to us about, the light rail vehicles that you're, so you were

Holly Arnold: 00:19:34

just finished up a midlife recycle or rehab, and now you're, you got money

Holly Arnold: 00:19:39

to go forward with brand new vehicles.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:41

Well, we hope so.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:42

We applied for a federal grant for that as well.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:44

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:44

So, uh, fairly similarly, I mean, the, the light rail is 30 years old.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:48

The vehicles themselves are pretty close to that and that is essentially

Holly Arnold: 00:19:51

useful life for a light rail vehicle.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:54

And so we've started the process to replace those.

Holly Arnold: 00:19:56

And so, um, it's a big undertaking, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:19:59

Like we're one of the last agencies that has kind of like those monstrous

Holly Arnold: 00:20:03

high floor vehicles with a high block that you have to, if you want to use

Holly Arnold: 00:20:07

a wheelchair that you have to get on.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:09

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:09

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:09

And so we're looking at modern, low floor, smaller profile, um, more

Holly Arnold: 00:20:14

obviously more context sensitive, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:20:15

Like they will fit within the the urban environment way better

Holly Arnold: 00:20:18

than our current vehicles do.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:19

and so very excited to do that.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:21

Outside of that, because it's a smaller footprint, it's not as wide, it's not as

Holly Arnold: 00:20:25

high, we have to rebuild the stations.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:27

Uh, to make sure that you can actually get on the train.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:29

So that's going to be a big undertaking, um, but an exciting one because it allows

Holly Arnold: 00:20:33

us, you know, I mentioned Howard Street before, um, Howard Street needs a lot

Holly Arnold: 00:20:38

of work and improvements and it gives us that opportunity to work with the

Holly Arnold: 00:20:41

city, work with developers to reimagine Howard Street and make it a much more

Holly Arnold: 00:20:45

enjoyable, uh, place for folks to be.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:48

That's great.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:48

And then also on that one too, signal system, right?

Holly Arnold: 00:20:50

So again, that behind the scenes stuff, like you don't see the signal system,

Holly Arnold: 00:20:53

but if it doesn't work, it's problematic.

Holly Arnold: 00:20:56

And so we're looking at a signal system replacement as

Holly Arnold: 00:20:58

part of that effort as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:00

Okay.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:00

And tell us what we're at on the Red Line.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:02

Yeah.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:02

So Governor Moore in June, uh, relaunched the Baltimore red line, uh, which

Holly Arnold: 00:21:06

is, um, still in the kind of early, planning stage is project development

Holly Arnold: 00:21:10

at this point, but we have the ability to use 13 years worth of work and

Holly Arnold: 00:21:15

documents and engineering from before.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:17

so we brought on a senior project director to lead that effort.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:20

We're working closely with the city and the county.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:23

Um, and so we're, we've done all.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:24

ton of engagement with the communities over the past year.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:28

I will say the number one thing that we've heard is, uh,

Holly Arnold: 00:21:31

get the shovel in the ground.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:32

We want the Red Line now, um, which is great, um, and we're working with the

Holly Arnold: 00:21:36

Federal Transit Administration to kind of brush off the environmental documentation.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:40

Uh, we should have in 2024 an announcement of, of mode, so we're looking at, uh,

Holly Arnold: 00:21:45

light rail or bus rapid transit, so which mode it will be, um, and then

Holly Arnold: 00:21:48

beginning to move forward with that.

Holly Arnold: 00:21:50

And we talked light rail earlier, so one exciting potential piece is, um,

Holly Arnold: 00:21:54

it, the timing may work out that we're able to purchase a fleet of vehicles

Holly Arnold: 00:21:59

for the existing light rail system if light rail is the chosen mode that

Holly Arnold: 00:22:02

would match up with a red line vehicle, which would really be fantastic, um,

Holly Arnold: 00:22:06

for being able to kind of like just that continuity of having the mechanics

Holly Arnold: 00:22:09

understand, right, it's not two different fleets you have to train on, they can

Holly Arnold: 00:22:12

actually be able to work, uh, on one.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:14

And the red, the red line is the east west corridor.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:16

Do you have something going on in your north south corridor?

Holly Arnold: 00:22:19

We do.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:19

So one of the, uh, in the Central Maryland Regional Transit Plan that I

Holly Arnold: 00:22:23

mentioned previously, uh, one of the corridors identified was a north south

Holly Arnold: 00:22:26

one from Towson into downtown Baltimore.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:29

And so the team worked over the past 18 months to do a feasibility study there,

Holly Arnold: 00:22:34

um, looking at potential ridership, what modes, what alignments would work.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:38

Um, so that got published in December and so we're looking to kind of re

Holly Arnold: 00:22:41

kick off that public conversation for the next steps, um, this year.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:45

And so excited to, you know, again, Pretty closely mirrors our CityLink

Holly Arnold: 00:22:48

Red, which is one of our bus routes.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:49

Um, and that is our highest ridership bus route, uh, that honestly rivals,

Holly Arnold: 00:22:54

uh, a lot of rail in other cities.

Holly Arnold: 00:22:57

Um, so definitely a corridor that can use some investment.

Holly Arnold: 00:23:00

Um, and so we're looking forward to that.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:01

Holly, thanks so much for sharing with us your career path and

Paul Comfort: 00:23:04

the big projects you've got going on at one of the largest agencies in America.

Holly Arnold: 00:23:08

Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Arnold: 00:23:09

Thank you so much for having me.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:13

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:16

Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Transit Unplugged

Tris Hussey: 00:23:19

with our special guest Holly Arnold.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:21

Administrator of the Maryland MTA.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:24

Next week, we have another special feed swap episode.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:27

This time, we're swapping episodes with APTAs Transit Authority podcast, where

Tris Hussey: 00:23:32

our VP for mobility initiatives in public policy Art Guzzetti is talking

Tris Hussey: 00:23:36

with Amtrak CEO, Stephen Gardener.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:39

We're excited to announce a special Transit Unplugged live CEO round table.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:44

Hosted by Dr.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:45

Kaan Yildizgöz at UITP MENA Transport Congress and Exhibition on February

Tris Hussey: 00:23:51

the 29th at the Trapeze booth.

Tris Hussey: 00:23:54

We'll have guests, including UITP President, Renee Amilcar and the

Tris Hussey: 00:23:58

Director General of the Integrated Transport Center in Abu Dhabi.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:02

Abdula Al Marzooqi Look for more information and links in the show notes.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:07

The MENA transport Congress and exhibition 2024 is the event focusing

Tris Hussey: 00:24:12

on sustainable urban mobility solutions in the MENA region.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:16

It takes place in Dubai from February 28th to March 1st, the event is

Tris Hussey: 00:24:21

co-organized by UITP and Dubai's RTA.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:24

The MENA of Transport Congress and exhibition has been a premier

Tris Hussey: 00:24:28

platform for showcasing advancements in public transport since 2007.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:34

If you have a question comment or would like to be a guest on the show.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:38

Feel free to email us anytime@infoattransitunplugged.com.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:43

And of course@transitunplugged.com is where you can sign up for our newsletter.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:46

And find out where we are all over social media.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:50

Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:53

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:57

And at Transit Unplugged.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:58

We're passionate about telling those stories.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:01

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.