What’s the secret sauce to increasing ridership 27% in one year?

Paul Comfort: 00:00:03

Are you looking for ways to grow your ridership dramatically,

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even beyond your pre pandemic levels?

Paul Comfort: 00:00:09

I'm Paul Comfort.

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You're going to want to stay tuned to this episode of Transit Unplugged, where

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I talk with Eve Wiggins, director of transit at a major transit system in

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Mississauga, Ontario, outside of Toronto.

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They have 500 buses and they have grown their ridership to 109 percent

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of their pre pandemic levels.

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Twenty-seven percent over the last year.

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She tells us how.

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We also talked to Eve about her career.

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She's had a great career, 20 years, in the Toronto airport and then working

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as a group station manager at Toronto Transit Commission for Andy Byford,

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then to Metrolinx, where she was vice president of bus services for several

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years and now as Director of Transit for the full city of Mississauga.

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A great, talk about the differences between When you're the CEO, the

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top person, and when you're in senior leadership and how you

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can approach that differently.

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And finally, we talk about what the future holds for Mississauga when

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it comes to zero emission fuels.

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I think you'll be surprised about what's happening there.

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Stay tuned on now this episode where we talk to Eve Wiggins,

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Director of Transit in Mississauga.

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Let's join the conversation.

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I'm excited to be with Eve Wiggins, who is the Director of Transit in

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Mississauga, Ontario, MiWay Transit System, which happens to be, Eve, where

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the headquarters of, uh, one of our big companies is, Trapeze, right in

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Mississauga, so I've, I've actually been up there probably a half dozen times.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:31

Great place, by the way.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:33

That's right.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:33

That's right.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:34

Good morning, Paul.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:34

Good to talk to you.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:35

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:36

Good to talk to you too.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:37

I'm so excited about the work you're doing at MyWay Transportation.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:40

So, um, I want to just dive right in if you're good with it.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:43

Absolutely.

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:44

Let's go.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:44

I love the story of, you came to Mississauga to see some

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dramatic improvements and man, you have driven the growth, you and your agency

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have driven the growth of service in public transit there dramatically,

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haven't you?

Eve Wiggins: 00:01:58

Yeah, the agency has been growing leaps and bounds

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:01

since the end of the pandemic.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:03

it's been a very fast recovery.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:04

I'd say different from other cities.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:06

Um, there's something special going on here in Mississauga.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:09

I have just recently joined, uh, only in November.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:12

So, uh, this growth, I can't take any credit for it as much as I'd like to.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:17

But, um, essentially I was brought in to Uh, help serve and support that

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:21

growth and help, help get this transit system, really delivering service for

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:25

all of the customers and the increasing number of customers that were having.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:29

27

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percent growth in one year.

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Which is the numbers you're boasting now are phenomenal.

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Tell us some about the system itself.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:36

The modes you operate, where it operates, etc.

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Their, you know, closeness to Toronto, etc.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:42

We cover, um, and I'm going to give you, the metric version,

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:46

but we cover a population in the City of Mississauga, and this is

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:50

2021 data, but it's 717, 000 or, and probably 22, we've grown a bit as well.

Eve Wiggins: 00:02:57

So we're just shy of a million residents in the City of Mississauga.

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:02

The size is 292, just short of 300 square kilometers, um, and you can translate

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:10

that into, uh, square miles, and the service itself, we have, in 2023, we

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:16

serve 41 million customers on, 65 routes, and we have 51 local routes, six express

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:24

routes, and we also, add service in the, uh, school season, so we have also

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:29

routes covering high schools as well.

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:31

We offer 21, 24 hour service, and we are all exclusively bus service, but we do

Eve Wiggins: 00:03:38

have a bus rapid transit way as well, otherwise we are predominantly intercity.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:43

Gotcha.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:43

You got 500 vehicles, 1, 400 employees, and 3, 200 bus stops too, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:03:48

That's correct.

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Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:49

Yeah.

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It's a big system.

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Uh, and just outside of Toronto, it's a great city.

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You've got a lot going on.

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I mean, let's talk about that because so many agencies across, North America

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are still struggling with getting back up to pre pandemic ridership levels

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and we're almost done talking about it.

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I think, I think most CEOs I've talked to are like, Paul, I'm done with it.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:09

You know, we've, This is our new normal.

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We're at 80%.

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This is what it's going to be because a lot of people are still doing hybrid

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work is working and that's the, you know, for the foreseeable future.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:17

But you, your agency has figured out a way.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:19

I mean, you're, you're over your pre pandemic ridership numbers, from 2019.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:23

I think I saw numbers like 109 percent of what it was.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:27

So tell us what's happening and what's the secret sauce.

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:30

Yeah, what's the secret sauce is, I think it's about, for us to, uh,

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:35

return the level of service, the number of hours that we're putting in service,

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:39

recruiting, uh, operators as quickly as we can, we, we're, we're looking for, uh,

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:44

in excess of a hundred, uh, bus operators, and we are certainly in competition, so.

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:48

as you mentioned, we are, just next to the City of Toronto, so we are right

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:52

next door, and, uh, we offer connections to them, and the City of Brampton is

Eve Wiggins: 00:04:56

just north of us, and we are all looking for, uh, upwards of, uh, a thousand

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:01

bus drivers we are all looking to hire.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:06

There's a lot of competition.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:07

There's a lot of jobs and a lot of work.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:09

And I think that's part of the secret sauce as well.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:12

We just had Amazon open a huge facility.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:15

Um, we have some other, uh, industrials.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:17

Mississauga is the, still the largest cross docking, uh, facility

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:22

in North America for trucking.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:24

So, um, trucking generates a lot of employment.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:28

There's a lot of factories, a lot of industrial, operations

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:32

that have opened up.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:32

Bombardier is opening, a new plant, uh, right on the airport property.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:37

So Toronto Pearson International Airport is also within the city of Mississauga.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:41

So, um, there's a lot of employment.

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:44

That is, uh, rising here in Mississauga and, uh, transit is responding and

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:50

transit ridership, they want to take the bus and we are thrilled about that

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:53

and, and we are looking to deliver them the best product that we can and

Eve Wiggins: 00:05:57

continuously improve that product.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:59

And, and your service is a real connector, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:06:02

It connects in with other services in your region?

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:05

That's right, we connect with the provincial intercity provider,

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:09

GO Transit, we connect with the TTC, the City of Toronto Service, the Toronto

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:14

Transit Commission, we connect with the Brampton Transit to the north, we

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:18

connect with Oakville Transit to the west, we are bordered by the lake to the

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:22

south, but yeah, we connect our residents and our customers across the region

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:29

with all of the other transit as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:31

And how does that work with uh, intermodal fare, cards or whatever?

Paul Comfort: 00:06:35

Are you able to use the same card between different services or

Paul Comfort: 00:06:37

does everybody have their own?

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:39

Yep, so we are a PRESTO, enabled system.

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:42

So similar to TTC, OC Transpo in Ottawa and, and also GO Transit,

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:46

we are all PRESTO systems.

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:48

And, uh, right now, we are two fares.

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:51

So you tap.

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:52

once, and then, uh, tap onwards,

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:54

We do have a fare agreement with GO Transit, um, and I heard there is a

Eve Wiggins: 00:06:59

fare agreement coming, uh, with the other systems as well, so it'll be

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:03

better for riders, but, uh, more on that with, what I think is going to

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:07

be a government announcement soon.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:09

So it sounds like, it's a combination of factors

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like it always is, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:07:12

To see the growth.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:13

One is what you can do.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:15

It sounds like you've increased the service levels, the frequency back up to

Paul Comfort: 00:07:19

what it was, uh, pre pandemic, so you're offering services, at the same levels.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:24

Then you've got, uh, the great connections with the other major

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regions around you, Toronto being one of them, Brampton the other.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:31

And then also, thirdly, I'm hearing you say that, having enough staff to

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deliver that service is another factor.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:37

So let's talk about you because we've mentioned a lot of transit

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systems in the area and you've actually worked for most of them.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:43

So I think you're really well positioned to kind of take this job because

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of your background and experience.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:48

Tell me a little bit about all that, how all that played out.

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:51

That's right.

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:51

So, um, actually I started my career in aviation.

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:55

I, I thought I was going to be a pilot or a big blue sky.

Eve Wiggins: 00:07:59

I thought I was going to be an astronaut when I was a teenager.

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:01

So, uh, for those, uh, of your listeners that are just, uh, coming into transit,

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:06

you never know what the route is that you're going to take to get there.

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:09

So, um, yeah, I did 20 years in aviation and I spent the last 12 of that at

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:14

Toronto Pearson Airport, actually, I worked in airport operations in a

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:17

number of fields, um, in a number of departments, and I got this amazing call

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:23

from a headhunter to go and work for the TTC or the Toronto Transit Commission,

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:28

Andy Byford, we all know Andy had just arrived, and he was modernizing the

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:33

system and he was implementing the group station manager concept that he was

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:38

bringing over from the London Underground.

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:41

So I was one of five unheard of external people to come in at a relatively

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:46

senior level to join the Toronto Transit Commission as a group station

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:49

manager, where I did that for two years.

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:53

And then there were a number of changes at that time, but I was then asked to move

Eve Wiggins: 00:08:58

over and run the paratransit operations.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:01

So, uh, for four years, I was the TTC's head of WheelTrans, which is

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:05

the name of their paratransit product.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:07

And, um, I did that, uh, until 2018.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:11

When I got another call from the same headhunter that said, now you want

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:14

to go and work for the provincial transportation provider than that being

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:19

GO Transit, where I was asked to be the vice president of bus services.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:22

And so I looked after GO Bus on the Ops and Maintenance side for four years.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:28

And, um, then I took a little break, uh, of a few months to kind of consider

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:35

what I really wanted to do next and, uh, looked into, uh, really focusing

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:40

on myself, focusing on, uh, leadership.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:43

And, um, then.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:45

Same headhunting company called me and said, uh, here's,

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:49

here's your next role for you.

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:50

And, uh, we want you to come to the city of Mississauga and be

Eve Wiggins: 00:09:53

their new director of transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:55

I think we all need to get the phone number of that, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:09:57

of that, of that headhunter firm.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:00

They're just giving you all the good leads there.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:02

They, they are.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:03

And I, I heard once, uh, somebody said that, uh, you know, what's your, what's

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:07

the secret to your career success?

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:09

And it's that whenever, whenever anybody offers you an opportunity, you say yes.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:13

And it was about just really transit.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:17

Why would, why would I want to do that?

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:18

My career was in aviation.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:20

I was thinking at that time of, uh, you know, I was turning 40 at that

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:24

time and it was about, do I, do I want to do this for the rest of my life?

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:28

And there's something happens around that age, I think for most people is.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:32

If I keep doing it, then I'm going to be stuck doing it.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:35

And this is all I'm going to be.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:36

And, uh, and then when this, I just put that intention out there

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:41

and the call came and it was, yes, this is going to be amazing.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:44

And as we've all heard of the TTC, I mean, it's a, it's a storied company.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:50

It's a part of the fabric of if anybody lives in Southern Ontario or

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:53

lives in Toronto, it's an absolute integral part of the fabric.

Eve Wiggins: 00:10:58

So the opportunity to work for such an organization, uh, was

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:02

really something I jumped at.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:04

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:04

And such a great leader with Andy Byford, who's, I consider the Western world's

Paul Comfort: 00:11:09

leading transit executive, you know, doing Toronto, then New York City, then

Paul Comfort: 00:11:13

London, and now back helping Amtrak.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:16

Go high speed rail.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:17

I just saw Andy a few months ago and he told me all the cool things going on.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:21

I'm very excited about what's happening there.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:22

So you had a great opportunity, I think, to be mentored by

Paul Comfort: 00:11:25

one of the industry's best.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:27

My gosh, what, what a guy and what an opportunity to spend even

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:30

just two minutes with, with somebody like that and just two minutes with Andy would.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:34

Would just fill you up and make you feel incredible for months after he

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:39

just had that, you know, he asked about the secret sauce of transit.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:42

I think he just had that secret sauce of leadership of believing in people and

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:46

helping people to believe in themselves.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:48

And then, and then that was all it took really is just like a way we go, let's,

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:52

let's do something really amazing.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:54

And he made us believe it.

Eve Wiggins: 00:11:56

And once you believe it, you can do it.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:59

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:00

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:01

I think, um.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:02

I think it's a little bit different though, isn't it, that so you've

Paul Comfort: 00:12:05

been in positions where you weren't the very top person in transit, you

Paul Comfort: 00:12:09

had these other folks like Andy and Phil Verster up in Metrolinx that

Paul Comfort: 00:12:13

you're working with and for, and now you're catapulted into the top job.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:17

Tell me about that, the differences there, and what's it

Paul Comfort: 00:12:20

like, and what's your approach?

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:22

I gotta be honest, I gotta tell you it's pretty awesome to be, to be

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:26

the top transit dog here is, it's, it's great because It's really now down to me.

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:33

And that I can really, I learned from those incredible leaders what to do,

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:38

and then I learned from those incredible leaders in those moments of, hey,

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:41

maybe I would do something differently.

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:43

And now this is my opportunity to lead and to support the organization.

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:47

Now I really see myself at the City of Mississauga being their transit guide,

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:53

if you will, and, and really it's a, it's an awesome responsibility to support the

Eve Wiggins: 00:12:59

organization of the city and the city itself, and make those decisions, and then

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:05

grow and support the team that, that work for me and work with me to, um, To really

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:11

be the, their experts in their field, our, our maintenance lead to be that

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:16

expert and allow him to really do what he needs to do on the maintenance side.

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:21

My job is to move obstacles out of the way and, uh, and then communicate

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:25

that properly up to, I report to the Commissioner of Transportation

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:29

and Works, and then he in turn reports to the City Manager.

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:33

And so they have a lot of other things on their plate.

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:36

So it's pretty cool that I get to, uh, look after this, uh,

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:41

amazing transit organization.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:42

Do you have any, um, unique, uh, kind of like perspectives on

Paul Comfort: 00:13:47

leadership when you're in a top position?

Paul Comfort: 00:13:48

You know, um, so do you have particular approaches that you'd like to share today?

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Eve Wiggins: 00:13:54

Um, I follow, uh, this, uh, newly coined, uh, term, the CASTLE principles

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:00

and, CASTLE stands for Courage, Authenticity, Service, Truthfulness, Love,

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:07

believe it or not, and Effectiveness.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:10

And all of them support each other and at the end, uh, if you're

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:15

not effective, then, then, then there's really no point, right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:18

Like that's the number one thing that we want to be, but you need

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:21

courage sometimes to be effective.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:22

You need authenticity.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:24

You need to be an authentic person, an authentic leader.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:26

You need to be in service.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:28

And, and that was one of the, some of the work that I've learned is that

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:32

before it used to be about pleasing.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:34

You know, the Andy Byfords, the Phil Versters, it was really about when

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:38

I reported to them, it was about pleasing and supporting that leader

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:42

and what would they have me do.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:44

And now, uh, really as, as in the top transit job here at the city

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:49

is about what do my employees need?

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:52

How can I support them?

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:53

How can I serve them best and help them do the right thing?

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:57

And, and it's really changed the dynamic.

Eve Wiggins: 00:14:59

It's much more important to me, although of course I still want to keep my

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:03

job, but it's really important to me.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:05

That my employees know that I'm in service of them.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:08

I make it a point to, uh, head out and, and see my frontline employees at least

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:13

once a week that I'm in the garage, that I'm talking to them, that I'm

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:16

shaking their hands, that I'm asking them about their families, that I'm

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:19

saying thanks on, on difficult days.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:22

I was in here on New Year's Eve.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:23

I came in just to say hi and thanks to those that were here.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:27

Um, we unfortunately had a horrible collision and, uh, the other

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:31

week and I made sure that I was in the hospital with the family.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:35

So, so it really is, I'm, I'm really coming to embrace the role of service.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:41

And then, you know, truthfulness, right.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:43

It's like, people just want to hear the truth, even if it's bad news to them, even

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:47

if it's something that, that you can't do for them, they want to hear the truth.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:51

So like, that's absolutely what I want to do is just be authentic

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:56

and truthful and loving, right.

Eve Wiggins: 00:15:59

It's about, they're all humans.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:01

Nobody comes to work to do a bad job, so if somebody's done something that

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:05

they shouldn't, and we all know in transit things happen that you have

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:08

to deal with the employees, you're doing silly things, they're out on

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:11

the road or out in the system, it's really just sitting down and speaking

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:14

to them and saying, hey, what happened?

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:16

What happened with you today?

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:17

Rather than, rather than that approach, I think that we used to,

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:21

that I think we need to get out of.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:22

I think the pandemic taught us a lot about being better supportive of each other.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:28

And that's not necessarily, you know, the approach that had been taken before.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:32

You don't intend to do a bad job.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:34

I'm going to show you, here's how we need to do a great job here.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:38

And together, all of us doing our part.

Eve Wiggins: 00:16:40

Wow, what amazing things can happen if we do that.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:43

I think that's awesome.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:45

I, you know, I kind of view, especially at a larger system such as yours, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:16:49

where you have like over a thousand employees, I kind of view the role

Paul Comfort: 00:16:52

of a transit director, general manager, CEO, whatever the title

Paul Comfort: 00:16:55

is, like a mayor, a mayor of a town.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:58

you're handling, you know, not just transit, HR, finance, IT, procurement,

Paul Comfort: 00:17:02

legal, PR, all the stuff that you would if you were managing, uh, you

Paul Comfort: 00:17:06

know, like a, a town, uh, but also the, The leadership principles you just

Paul Comfort: 00:17:10

mentioned there, a lot of them, are like those of an elected official, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:17:14

Dealing with people with authenticity, uh, being out front, visiting, you

Paul Comfort: 00:17:19

know, your employees when they're sick, all that kind of stuff.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:22

You really are, um, it really is an all encompassing leadership position.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:27

Absolutely.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:28

And what I think sometimes, you know, leaders and as I was coming up

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:32

is sometimes you're afraid, right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:33

You might hide in your office.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:35

There's often that people can be accused of that.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:38

Certainly the higher up you go, the less time you have in your diary.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:42

But I found that that is, and before I used to be, you know,

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:45

well, what do I say, right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:46

I, I.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:47

You know, hold my hand up quite honestly and say, I didn't do my, my frontline.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:52

I didn't pay my dues in the transit world, right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:54

I paid my dues in aviation.

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:56

I did other shift work doing other things frontline, but

Eve Wiggins: 00:17:59

I didn't do that in transit.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:00

So it's the, what do I say, right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:02

What's important to transit operators.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:04

And I'm very lucky that, um, my husband has been in the transit

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:08

world for, uh, almost 30 years now.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:11

And, uh, he.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:13

Started as a bus driver.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:15

So he's a great resource for me.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:16

And I, you know, I want to go talk to my operators.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:19

What do I ask them?

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:20

Ask them how long they've been driving.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:21

That's really important to a bus operator.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:23

They really care about that.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:24

Ask them what their day is like.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:26

Ask them what their shifts are like.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:27

Ask questions.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:29

And once, once I figured out how to do that, I'm away at the races.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:34

And, and I tell you those days when I go and it's unscripted

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:38

and it's not a structured meeting, those are my best days.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:42

That's when I feel the best.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:44

That's when I feel most energetic is when I've had time to speak

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:48

to the frontline employees.

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:49

Wow, they do so much and they sacrifice so much and I want to be

Eve Wiggins: 00:18:54

sure that they know how much I value and appreciate them for doing that.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:58

I love that, Eve.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:59

That's a great perspective.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:00

Now let's shift to what's coming to you for the future.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:03

I know, uh, Canada has, um, has really prioritized public

Paul Comfort: 00:19:07

transportation in a way maybe that even America hasn't in some respects.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:11

Uh, it is the heartbeat of many of your cities like yours there, but there's

Paul Comfort: 00:19:14

a lot coming up in the future, um, in public transit, whether it's, uh, how

Paul Comfort: 00:19:19

vehicles are fueled, whether it's, um, you know, any, any number of things.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:22

What do you have coming up for your future of your agency there?

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:25

So absolutely growth.

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:27

We have to, um, I'm planning that, uh, we're coming back in six months

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:31

time, um, mid year, uh, to come back and ask for, we need to, if we were

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:37

not growing incrementally, Uh, given that, uh, our demand is not growing

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:43

incrementally, it's leaping forward.

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:45

So if we were going to actually catch up to where we should be now, um, if we

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:51

weren't trying to grow incrementally on top of the, uh, pandemic, uh, slowdown,

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:56

if you will, um, we need to do a catch up.

Eve Wiggins: 00:19:59

So we're working on how much is that?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:01

Right?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:01

What is our catch up plan?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:02

How many more service hours do we need?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:04

And therefore, how many more operators do we need?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:07

How many more buses do we need?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:08

What does that look like?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:09

How many more supervisors?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:11

How many more transit enforcement?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:12

What does that look like if we were to be comfortably in

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:16

exactly where we want to be?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:18

And then, and then beyond that is, okay, how do we stay out in front of it?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:22

And then the big one for us as well is, okay, with new technology coming

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:28

in and, the Vision Zero policies and programs that the city has

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:32

in place as well as nationally is about, um, lowering our emissions.

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:38

And what is the choice of bus and what is the choice of that fuel source?

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:43

So, uh, we are actually, um, while we were considering electric buses previously,

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:48

we're now seeing that, uh, other, other transit operators are struggling.

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:53

Um, and we are in wintertime here now, and we are getting

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:57

whacked by some cold weather.

Eve Wiggins: 00:20:59

Finally, it's been pretty balmy and nice for us for, uh, the traditional months.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:03

We certainly had a green Christmas here, but, um, It is now getting cold,

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:08

minus 22 Celsius with the windchill.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:10

I'll let your American listeners translate that.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:14

And that's not even close to what they're hitting at some of our

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:18

partner agencies in Edmonton, for example, where it's minus 40.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:23

And then over minus 50, uh, with the wind chill.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:26

And I think by the time it gets to that temperature, I think Celsius

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:28

and Fahrenheit are about the same.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:31

Um, so it's really darn cold and, and electric buses are struggling in these

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:36

cold temperatures and the grid is struggling in these cold temperatures.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:40

So we are looking to hydrogen and we are considering our options for

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:44

actually making our own hydrogen.

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:46

there is some, uh, federal government money, uh, that we are trying to take

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:50

advantage of and, uh, submit our proposal for that, um, which is, to purchase

Eve Wiggins: 00:21:56

the hydrogen fuel source buses, but also to generate our own hydrogen as,

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:00

as all of the listeners would know.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:03

Um, the issue with hydrogen, while it might be great, is getting

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:06

it and getting access to it.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:07

And then the question of, well, how is it produced?

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:09

Is it green hydrogen?

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:10

Is it not green hydrogen?

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:12

Um, so yeah, that's what, that's what we're focused on now.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:15

And in order to do that, in order to buy more buses, we

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:19

actually need another garage.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:20

we are full our garages.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:22

We have two.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:23

Main garages are one, one large garage is divided into two complexes, but

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:28

really it's one, and then we have another smaller one in the north part of

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:32

our city, and we need to, a third one, and I'm actually saying, let's get on

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:37

paper a fourth one, because in no time.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:40

With the growth that we've experienced and the focus on transit,

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:45

Mississauga is a very transit forward, transit focused city.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:49

We are looking to help our riders and help our constituents and residents of the city

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:55

of Mississauga to get out of their cars.

Eve Wiggins: 00:22:57

And if we want them to do that, we need to give them a great alternative.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:02

And transit is a great alternative if we can get ourselves there.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:05

Well, you've got a, you've got a full plate, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:23:08

coming up for you, don't you?

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:09

I do, I do.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:10

It's, but it's fantastic.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:11

You know what?

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:11

It's, it's really fantastic.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:13

And I really see that, that I'm here conducting an incredible orchestra of 1400

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:19

people, and it's not all going to be me.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:22

I'm not going to be the one with the great ideas or the best ideas,

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:25

but it's about setting the dream.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:27

For everyone and all of them to come up with the great ideas.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:31

I'm helping where I can.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:33

I'm supporting certainly on the operations side.

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:35

We have some new leaders there that need some particular and focused operational

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:41

supports and and just in what What are all the interesting tricks of the trade

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:45

that you can do and how to really get your service humming out there on the street?

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:49

We need to get some more on street presence with our supervisors and,

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:53

you know, kind of catch a bit of the shenanigans that can go on in a big city,

Eve Wiggins: 00:23:57

uh, covering a big footprint So there's, there's a focus on that operationally,

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:01

but then it's, all right, how can we grow?

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:04

How quickly can we train new drivers?

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:06

How many training classes can we put on to bring all those new drivers in, get

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:11

them in the seat and get them going?

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:13

And then make sure that we have enough, enough buses to, uh, to put

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:16

them in and deliver that service.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:18

Wow.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:19

Well, congratulations to you on being one of the few large agencies that are

Paul Comfort: 00:24:23

now growing at a rapid rate, 27 percent ridership growth, phenomenal over

Paul Comfort: 00:24:28

your pre pandemic ridership numbers.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:30

We wish you the very best as you continue to lay out this plan and

Paul Comfort: 00:24:35

deliver for the citizens of Ontario.

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:38

Thanks so much.

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:38

Thanks so much, Paul.

Eve Wiggins: 00:24:39

It's been great to talk to you.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:43

Hi, I'm Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:46

Thank you for listening to this week's episode with our guest Eve

Tris Hussey: 00:24:50

Wiggins, head of Mississauga transit.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:53

Coming up next week, we have Holly Arnold.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:56

CEO of the Maryland transit administration.

Tris Hussey: 00:24:59

Talking with Paul about her transit career and some of the massive

Tris Hussey: 00:25:02

projects on the go at the MTA.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:05

We're excited to announce a special Transit Unplugged live CEO round table.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:10

Hosted by Dr.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:11

Khan you'll Legos at UITP MENA transport, Congress and Exhibition on

Tris Hussey: 00:25:16

February the 29th at the Trapeze booth.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:20

We'll have guests, including UITP president, Renee Amilcar and the

Tris Hussey: 00:25:24

director general of the integrated transport center in Abu Dhabi.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:28

Abdula Al Zuki.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:30

But for more information and links in the show notes.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:33

The MENA transport Congress and exhibition 2024 is the event focusing

Tris Hussey: 00:25:38

on sustainable urban mobility solutions in the MENA region.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:42

It takes place in Dubai from February 28th to March 1st, the event is

Tris Hussey: 00:25:46

co-organized by UITP and Dubai's RTA.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:50

The MENA of transport Congress and exhibition has been a premier

Tris Hussey: 00:25:53

platform for showcasing advancements in public transport since 2007.

Tris Hussey: 00:25:59

If you have a question or comment, feel free to email

Tris Hussey: 00:26:02

us@infoattransitunplugged.com.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:05

Transit unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:09

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:12

And at transit unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:16

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.