Taylor Swift and the rebirth of transit in 2023

Paul Comfort: 00:00:02

Well, 2023 is almost over.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:05

What have we learned and where are we going?

Paul Comfort: 00:00:08

I'm Paul Comfort, and today's Transit Unplugged podcast features the CEO

Paul Comfort: 00:00:13

of the American Public Transportation Association, or APTA, APTA.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:16

Mr.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:17

Paul Skoutelas who will tell us the answers to those questions.

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He's been a friend to the program appearing many times

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on our video and audio shows.

Paul Comfort: 00:00:25

Plus he's been a guest on Transit Unplugged Live an event we held at

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A-U-I-T-P summit years ago in Sweden.

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We also have a first time guest from apta, and that's Ms.

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Petra Mullet, who is the Vice President of Strategy and International Programs

Paul Comfort: 00:00:37

there, and both of them share some of the challenges, successes and learnings from

Paul Comfort: 00:00:42

2023 for the public transit industry, both here in America and internationally.

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I know you're going to love this discussion.

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In our program, Transit Unplugged, we've had an amazing year of 2023.

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Our television show, Transit Unplugged TV, has grown dramatically in its

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cinematic and content quality.

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If you go back and look at some of the first episodes and look

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at them now, you'll see the difference what I'm talking about.

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A lot of that is due to our video director and editor, Jaime Cuadra, who just does

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tremendous award winning work and we basically, we visit a new city every

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month around the world and we delve into their public transportation system.

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We go behind the scenes with their leaders.

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We ride the service with them and they talk to us about their

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challenges and they show them to us.

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The construction projects, their operations control centers, you know,

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inside the vehicles, the hydrogen, the battery electric, how the

Paul Comfort: 00:01:32

charging works, all the fun stuff.

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And, speaking of fun, we take our viewers the food and

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culture scene of those cities.

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And those are the things that public mobility enables

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residents and visitors to enjoy.

Paul Comfort: 00:01:45

And I think it's working because our viewership has grown

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exponentially over the last year.

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Over a 500 percent increase in viewership now in our second year on our

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YouTube channel, Transit Unplugged TV.

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Plus, we're now distributed through a brand new television network, the

Paul Comfort: 00:02:00

Transportation Channel, and we've entered into social media in a big way.

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We now are distributing interesting clips from the program via YouTube

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Shorts and Instagram Reels.

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I encourage you to follow us on both platforms to see these

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and let us know what you think.

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And our audio podcast is growing too.

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Now in this new year of 2024, we're focusing on not just CEOs discussing

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topics affecting our industry, but also a look at their career journeys a little

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bit more than we've done in the past.

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How they made and make decisions.

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All this is so that those in the public transportation industry who

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want to learn from them as they move up the ladder of success can do so.

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Plus, the companies that support the industry will learn from these discussions

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about where the public transit agencies are going, their plans for the future.

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All this as we are now in our seventh year of Modaxo's thought

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leadership vehicle, Transit Unplugged.

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We have our podcast, our TV show, live events, our weekly newsletter,

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and now in a big way on social media.

Paul Comfort: 00:02:57

Thank you for being a partner with us as we continue to grow.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:00

Now let's join our discussion with Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollett of APTA,

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taking a look at the hot trends from 2023 and what we see coming in 2024.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:10

Great to have Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollett with us today.

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They work for the American Public Transportation Association or APTA, which

Paul Comfort: 00:03:18

is America's large national association.

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And this is our year end review show.

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And so, uh, I thought who better to talk about the year end review than

Paul Comfort: 00:03:26

the head of our national association here in America and Petra will

Paul Comfort: 00:03:29

give us the international view.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:31

Uh, Paul, thank you for being on the show once again.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:33

You're a multi time guest now.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:03:35

Always happy to be part of it, Paul.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:03:37

You do a great job and it's fun to have a conversation with you from time to time.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:41

Absolutely.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:42

Uh, and Petra I know that you and I will be talking in just a minute about some of

Paul Comfort: 00:03:46

the big international trips that you guys did this year and the learnings from them.

Petra Mollet: 00:03:50

Yes, indeed.

Petra Mollet: 00:03:51

Looking forward to it, Paul.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:52

So, uh, Paul, let's kick it off with you.

Paul Comfort: 00:03:54

Um, I guess first off, why don't you tell us a little bit

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about APTA, your organization?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:03:58

Yeah, Paul, I always like to refer to APTA as

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:01

really a public private partnership.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:03

Our membership is comprised of organizations, both public sector, meaning

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:08

the transportation transit agencies across the country and in Canada, so we

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:12

truly are international, and in fact, the private sector, all the businesses, car

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:18

manufacturers, bus and rail, equipment suppliers, engineering companies,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:24

universities, trade associations at the state level, they comprise our

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:28

membership, so truly is public private.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:30

We represent over 1, 600 member organizations, and they're comprised

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:36

of some 450, 000 employees directly working in public transit, and support

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:42

several million private sector jobs.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:44

So it's about an 85 billion dollar industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:46

Very significant, very significant in terms of its impact, not only

Paul Skoutelas: 00:04:50

on mobility, but our economy.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:52

And you guys have a lot of heft, I guess I would say.

Paul Comfort: 00:04:54

I know that, um, when APTA puts their shoulder behind the wheel, so

Paul Comfort: 00:04:59

to speak, on a hot topic, you get action on Capitol Hill and elsewhere.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:03

Well, I think that is true.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:04

You know, we have a strong, uh, membership base with, with keen interest to make

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:10

our industry move forward, and so we, I think, do an excellent job of bringing

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:15

the voices together, both public and private, to make sure that when we go

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:18

to the Hill, uh, they can count on good, solid information that they can base

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:23

their decision making on, and to make the case, and to make the case is twofold, at

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:27

least, and that is, the public perspective of bringing resources to communities

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:31

to invest in public transit, and then the private sector, which is really the

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:35

job creator, creating the opportunities to innovate, uh, to provide services

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:40

that I think take us to another level.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:42

And I think that's very powerful on the Hill to hear both the public

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:45

and the private sector messages.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:47

of the things I think is great about you, Paul,

Paul Comfort: 00:05:49

as the CEO is your background.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:51

You worked in both the public and private sector, CEOs of transit agencies, but

Paul Comfort: 00:05:56

also, you know, the private background.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:05:59

Well, I feel very privileged about that, Paul.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:01

You know, this is a great industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:02

You've been in it many, many years, so many of us have, and we've grown

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:06

to have an appreciation for it.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:07

And I think certainly my time in both sectors, public and private,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:11

I think gives me a perspective of understanding the issues.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:14

And bringing those in the conversations that we have on a

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:17

day to day basis with our members.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:19

Yeah, well, from my perspective, I think you are doing and

Paul Comfort: 00:06:22

have done a great job as a leader of our national association and I'm so honored

Paul Comfort: 00:06:27

to, uh, you know, to be your friend and to work together for the same cause.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:31

That's something that's great about our industry is, Unlike maybe some

Paul Comfort: 00:06:34

industry associations, like an airline industry association, whatever,

Paul Comfort: 00:06:37

where they're all competitors.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:38

We don't have that in public transportation.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:40

We're actually all here to help each other.

Paul Comfort: 00:06:42

And that's why you're on the show today, because you're going to

Paul Comfort: 00:06:44

share some of the best practices and things and solutions that we've seen.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:48

I think you put your finger on it.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:49

There's a great camaraderie and a great sharing of information.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:53

Certainly, you'd have to say amongst the private sector

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:55

members, there's some competition.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:56

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:06:57

But even with that, people are very open, very candid, willing to work

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:01

together, not afraid to share stories about what may work, what may not.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:05

And I think that's certainly true of the public sector.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:08

Uh, it is a great industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:10

Those of us who've had the privilege of kind of growing up in the

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:12

industry, developing our careers.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:14

There are a lot of rewards there of just knowing you're doing meaningful

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:17

work and you're doing it with a group of individuals and professionals

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:21

who are striving for some of the same goals that you're working on.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:24

So it's a great reward.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:26

Let's dive right in then.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:27

So, um, Paul, give us some of the trends from this last year.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:32

What are some of the challenges we faced and solutions?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:34

Well, Paul, overall, I would say we as an

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:36

industry and as an association have had a very, very good year.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:40

You know, our work doesn't come without its challenges, right?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:43

Every business, every organization, public or private, is going to be challenged.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:47

And year to year, that may change.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:49

Certainly, we have our challenges, but if you look at the vital statistics,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:53

We have, uh, really climbed out of this, uh, this pandemic, not

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:57

entirely, but making great progress.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:07:59

If you compare where our ridership is nationally, uh, to

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:02

a year ago, we're up about 20%.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:04

So we're now hovering around around 75 to 80% at a national

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:09

level, uh, as compared to 2019.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:11

That's not where we ultimately want to be.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:14

But our agencies are demonstrating resilience.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:16

Uh, they're, they're really innovating with their services, their approaches,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:21

uh, the fare policies that they're implementing, luring riders back, but

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:25

I would see, I say also new riders, uh, that haven't experienced the system.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:29

What we've seen in the last number of months is The power of other sources of

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:33

entertainment, of leisure activities.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:35

You mentioned you were just in Vegas.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:37

You know, what we saw is what, uh, the Taylor Swift factor bringing thousands

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:42

upon thousands of riders to transit.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:44

Many of whom have never experienced public transportation.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:46

Time person of the year.

Paul Comfort: 00:08:47

And largely, I think because of what she did for transit.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:50

Absolutely.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:51

So it's beginning to change the mindset.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:53

Yes, it's the commute to work without question, but it's not just that.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:57

It's the leisurely ride.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:08:59

It's the recreational ride.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:00

It's the educational ride.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:01

And I think transit is beginning to really accept that as one

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:05

of their great opportunities.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:06

So we're seeing ridership continue to grow.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:10

Again, it's not inching forward as much and fast as we would

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:13

like, but it's happening.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:14

And what I'm very pleased about is that the agencies have rolled up their sleeves.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:18

Both public and private members that are supporting the industry,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:21

looking for ways to be more creative.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:24

And I think that's really important.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:25

We've got to adapt to a different environment than what we've had.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:29

So that's a very strong positive.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:31

We continue, the agencies continue to advance climate initiatives, zeroing, the

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:35

transition to zero emission bus fleets.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:38

That does not come without some of its pains, as you well know, and

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:41

talking to our members, uh, still issues of the technology that are

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:45

being refined and improved upon.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:47

Uh, we've had some challenges in the last number of months with two of

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:50

our, uh, bus OEMs, uh, that have, uh, really expressed and have now

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:55

demonstrated some difficulties.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:57

First, NovaBus exiting the U.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:59

S.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:09:59

production of transit buses.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:01

Uh, that is a hit.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:02

Uh, secondly, Proterra, the only 100 percent maker of buses by

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:07

electric vehicle battery propulsion.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:09

So we have issues like that that we've got to work through and we are addressing

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:14

those, but I think those are all positive signs of progress that don't come

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:18

again without some sacrifice, without some pain, but the progress is there.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:22

I am most encouraged as we look at the environment that we've been operating

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:26

in, which in itself has been challenging, high inflation, supply chain issues,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:30

workforce issues that we all know about that affect both public and private

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:34

sector, agencies continue to advance their capital programs nearly every day,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:39

a new story about a transit line, a rail extension, a new operating facility.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:44

I was just in Akron, Ohio.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:46

10 days ago to dedicate the groundbreaking of a new maintenance

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:50

and operations base at Akron Metro.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:52

Uh, they're very excited about that because they know that will translate

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:55

into improved practices, improved services ultimately to their public.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:10:59

And we're seeing this all over the country.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:01

And then of course we have an administration.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:03

That continues to be advocates and and announce new grant

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:07

awards virtually every week.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:09

We've had just two major announcements that have come forward with new

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:13

high speed rail monies, both for the system that will connect.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:17

Los Angeles, the Los Angeles area to, uh, Las Vegas, high speed rail.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:21

Yeah, my boys at Brightline.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:23

Yes, yes, indeed.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:25

The second venture for them, right, in addition to their Florida venture.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:28

And, of course, California high speed rail, which, uh, continues to generate

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:32

additional momentum to move forward.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:34

These are all positives that really talk about the importance of the industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:38

Uh, I think Americans want more public transportation.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:41

Every poll that we've, we've ever done continues to reinforce that notion.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:45

So we've got a lot of momentum, uh, that is built up.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:48

I think that will continue in 2024.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:51

Again, we've got to be, um, practical about this, not without challenges.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:56

That that's the nature of it.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:11:57

That's why we, all of us do what we do to help address some of these

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:01

issues and work through them, uh, for, for the betterment for all.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:04

So that will continue.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:05

And it seems like, uh, kind of last question on this round.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:08

It seems like some agencies are figuring out solutions to the fiscal cliff.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:13

Uh, you've got New York City looking at congestion charging.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:16

You've got Chicago coming to kind of a financial agreement,

Paul Comfort: 00:12:20

increasing their budget.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:21

Friends like, uh, Randy Clarke and WMATA are working with local

Paul Comfort: 00:12:25

government agencies to kind of, um, I don't know what I'd call it.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:29

Ramp up or amp up are positioning in society.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:33

So the transit isn't seen as an also ran but is seen as an essential service.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:37

Kind of like, you know, schools and parks and other things that governments

Paul Comfort: 00:12:41

subsidize regularly without any question.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:43

Yeah.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:43

Well, you know, what's interesting is, and those of us who have a long term

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:46

perspective of this industry, you're, you're one of those as well, always

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:49

know that, look, transit has never had a free ride in terms of it's budgets,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:54

it's budget struggles, that from time to time, you've got to make tough decisions,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:12:58

you've got to modify your service, your fares, you have to adapt, and we've

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:02

never had the the privilege of being able to say funds are unlimited, right?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:06

That's just not the way transit has been budgeted and financed over the years.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:10

This fiscal cliff is an interesting term.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:12

It really has just entered our lexicon in the last couple of years.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:17

And certainly it's very descriptive of the situation.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:20

But it's not different than what we've, we've, we've met

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:22

those challenges in years past.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:24

And yes, you've hit upon some of those.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:26

New York has a solution now in terms of providing some funding.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:30

California at the state level has created some additional runway for

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:35

additional funding, which is going to give the agencies more time to adapt.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:39

Chicago at the state level is working through some proposals that will

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:43

raise more monies and also make some changes perhaps in their structure.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:47

And so I would expect that will continue.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:51

WMATA, of course, we're here in our own home here in Washington, D.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:54

C.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:55

has a huge budget deficit that they're dealing with, and

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:57

they've got a complex governance.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:13:59

They're looking for the jurisdictions there, the three states, so to speak,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:02

to come to the table and address that, you know, I believe those will be worked

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:07

out because at the end, people recognize how important public transportation

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:11

is, what it means to people's lives.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:13

We don't want to leave people behind.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:17

Public transit, as we all agree, creates mobility and opportunity for

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:21

people to live their lives, and I think that we will find ways at the

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:25

local level, uh, whether it's here in Washington, whether it's Chicago,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:30

elsewhere, uh, to get to a good place.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:32

Again, doesn't come easy, doesn't come out with a lot of anxiety, uh, but

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:36

I'm confident that that will happen.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:38

And our agencies will continue to make the investments.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:41

The capital side continues to, to roar, uh, with these new

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:44

investments that are being made.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:46

Agencies are having to adapt there as well.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:49

You know, those dollars perhaps don't go quite as far because of inflation, some of

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:53

the other things, but they're resequencing their, their investment levels.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:57

Figuring out how best to do these projects.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:14:59

And again, the innovation and the resilience of our industry

Paul Skoutelas: 00:15:02

is really noteworthy and that will certainly continue.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:06

Paul, we're going to come back to you for a quick look into

Paul Comfort: 00:15:09

2024 after we ask Petra about some of the learnings and the trips that APTA

Paul Comfort: 00:15:14

sponsored this year internationally.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:17

Yes, thank you very much, Paul.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:18

So we did two key international study missions this year, which

Petra Mollet: 00:15:22

really is a great opportunity for us to have our finger on the pulse

Petra Mollet: 00:15:27

and really understand what are some best practices around the world.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:32

That are transferable to North America.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:36

We had a chance to take about 30, uh, senior executives from both the public

Petra Mollet: 00:15:40

and private sector as well as, uh, our Administrator Fernandez from the FTA and

Petra Mollet: 00:15:45

some of her key staff, uh, through Spain.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:49

We spent time in Madrid, Valencia, and Barcelona in June and then.

Petra Mollet: 00:15:53

We were able to do another study mission this year, very fortunate

Petra Mollet: 00:15:56

to be able to do that with 35 members, both public and private

Petra Mollet: 00:15:59

sector to Australia and New Zealand.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:02

We spent time in Auckland, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Sydney.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:06

And all of those trips are really focused on how do you build

Petra Mollet: 00:16:09

a world class transit system?

Petra Mollet: 00:16:10

What is needed?

Petra Mollet: 00:16:11

And really to see what is possible.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:13

And, you know, there's so much that.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:17

We could talk about in terms of what we learned and I'm sure Paul, Paul

Petra Mollet: 00:16:20

would have a lot to has a lot to say here as well, of course, but really, I

Petra Mollet: 00:16:25

just wanted to mention 3, 3 elements.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:27

Perhaps 1 is governance structures.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:29

I think that we really saw.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:32

some government structures, governance structures that really allowed us,

Petra Mollet: 00:16:36

allows for that seamless connectivity between modes and brings together

Petra Mollet: 00:16:42

land use planning and transportation.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:44

So, in Madrid, for example, they have the regional consortium for public

Petra Mollet: 00:16:48

transportation, and that brings together all of their operators and really

Petra Mollet: 00:16:54

focuses on fare modal technological and administrative, integration.

Petra Mollet: 00:16:58

So, so they, they really do have that seamless connectivity and deliver on that.

Petra Mollet: 00:17:02

Um, and then, for example, uh, Victoria, the state of Victoria

Petra Mollet: 00:17:06

in Australia, where Melbourne is located, where they've created the

Petra Mollet: 00:17:10

Department of Transport and Planning.

Petra Mollet: 00:17:12

So again, bringing together all the modes from a policy perspective, as well as a

Petra Mollet: 00:17:16

planning function, but also tying that with the land use management and planning.

Petra Mollet: 00:17:21

And I think the 2nd element is, is just what happens when you see both

Petra Mollet: 00:17:26

political commitment as well as a public understanding of the symbiotic

Petra Mollet: 00:17:30

relationship between the vibrancy of cities and their economic competitiveness

Petra Mollet: 00:17:36

and a robust public transportation system.

Petra Mollet: 00:17:39

And I think wherever we went, whatever, whatever city we were in, we saw,

Petra Mollet: 00:17:44

a culture and a lifestyle choice, uh, with public transportation at

Petra Mollet: 00:17:49

heart and, and, and cities that were 24 hours had have, um, have all the

Petra Mollet: 00:17:55

services at hand in urban areas, retail jobs, cultural services, et cetera.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:02

And, uh, and public transportation being used all day and all night.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:06

And, and really, a, a delivery system focused on ensuring that

Petra Mollet: 00:18:10

there is that constant access to where people need to go.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:13

And that understanding that, people come to cities and live

Petra Mollet: 00:18:17

in cities because there is a very good public transportation system.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:21

And I think the 3rd, uh, 1, which we are still very much unpacking,

Petra Mollet: 00:18:26

and which is so important to us now, is we are focused on this topic is

Petra Mollet: 00:18:30

efficient and effective project delivery and we really saw some excellent

Petra Mollet: 00:18:35

models around the world this year.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:38

Where they really are focused on, on being outcome oriented, um, and putting in

Petra Mollet: 00:18:44

place standardized procedures, the right, uh, organizational culture, to ensure

Petra Mollet: 00:18:50

projects are built well and effectively.

Petra Mollet: 00:18:53

You know, in, in Madrid, for example, where they built 50 miles of, of

Petra Mollet: 00:18:58

Metro and 80 stations in four years.

Petra Mollet: 00:19:01

I mean, that, that's incredible.

Petra Mollet: 00:19:03

and, uh, you know, we were just in Sydney where, uh, they're building,

Petra Mollet: 00:19:07

you know, they're building light rail six years from start to finish,

Petra Mollet: 00:19:11

uh, 11 miles of track, but, but that includes all the project review.

Petra Mollet: 00:19:15

That's from the start of the project, project review and

Petra Mollet: 00:19:18

approval processes to operations.

Petra Mollet: 00:19:20

And, uh, just, really understanding what it, how they have really done

Petra Mollet: 00:19:25

a deep dive on what it takes to, to deliver those projects and, and,

Petra Mollet: 00:19:28

and deliver them in the right way.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:30

are great, really good learnings, uh, Petra.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:33

Thank you for sharing those with us.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:35

I know that APTA did a, um, a summary call and, uh, like a, a program, a webinar

Paul Comfort: 00:19:40

where they presented all these findings.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:42

So it's great that you're giving that information kind of back to the industry.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:45

Not everyone's able to go, but they can still get the learnings from it.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:48

Indeed.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:49

Yeah, that's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:50

So Paul, let's take a quick look into 2024.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:52

As I look into this new year, I've got a new book coming out called The

Paul Comfort: 00:19:55

New Future of Public Transportation with contributions from 30 of the

Paul Comfort: 00:19:59

world's leading transit experts.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:01

Thank you for contributing to my last book, The First Future

Paul Comfort: 00:20:04

of Public Transportation.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:05

But what I see, and I'm interested in your take on this and anything else, is

Paul Comfort: 00:20:09

the emergence of hydrogen powered buses as a new technology that's up and coming.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:13

Secondly, would be new funding mechanisms such as road charging.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:18

As we get more and more electric vehicles on the road, there's less

Paul Comfort: 00:20:21

and less gas tax available for these transportation trust funds.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:25

And so states like Maryland, where I'm at, and other states are looking

Paul Comfort: 00:20:28

at that as also, I understand a federal study will soon be.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:32

And then the third big trend I see is the continuation of the

Paul Comfort: 00:20:34

importance of public transportation and cleaning the environment.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:38

And I see that as being a driver of what we do, kind of getting

Paul Comfort: 00:20:41

the political willpower behind us.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:43

As a result of that, what are your thoughts on those and anything

Paul Comfort: 00:20:46

else that you see coming in 2024?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:20:48

Yeah, no, Paul, you've hit on some very important issues here

Paul Skoutelas: 00:20:50

that I think will be front and center.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:20:52

Let's, let's deal with one that everybody is always concerned about.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:20:55

It's the funding piece, right?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:20:56

And so we're heading into a time period where we've got to a very

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:00

different composition in Congress.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:03

Uh, and so we know there may be some headwinds there in terms of continuing

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:06

to advance all of our initiatives.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:08

We are now into our third year of the Infrastructure and Investment and

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:13

Jobs Act and that reauthorization.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:15

our first priority for the coming year is to protect that investment to make

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:19

sure that the appropriations match.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:21

Uh, the authorized levels, and that will not be an easy feat at

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:24

all, but, but that's at the top of our list, and it's not too early.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:28

We'll begin thinking early in the year of 2024 about reauthorization.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:33

You know, what comes next?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:34

And, and you just hit on it.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:35

We know that the gas tax revenues now are on decline.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:38

Uh, there's no way that they're going to be able to be of sufficient

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:42

magnitude to fund transportation.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:44

roads and public transit.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:46

So we need some new thinking there, new experimentation, new

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:49

identification of revenue sources and streams that will serve that need.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:53

It is happening at the state levels.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:55

Uh, there's a lot of experimentation that's going to go forward in

Paul Skoutelas: 00:21:58

terms of, uh, distance based, uh, you know, mileage, uh, based, uh,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:02

uh, tolls and, and, and the like.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:05

So, yeah.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:05

So there's some new areas there that have to be explored if we're

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:09

really going to identify new funding for the future and we'll be

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:13

engaged in that in this coming year.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:15

The other is to address the issue that we touched on a few moments

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:19

ago, and that is some of the stress that our bus OEMs are facing.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:22

And so we have established a bus manufacturing task force.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:27

It is chaired by Dorval Carter.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:29

from Chicago, Chicago CTA, and Rich Davey, who is the president of New York

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:33

City Transit, so they've lent both their expertise and quite frankly their gravitas

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:38

to this issue, to give it the importance that it deserves, and we expect we'll

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:42

be coming out very shortly and into 2024 with recommendations about really changing

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:48

the procurement model that the industry has followed for many, many years.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:52

It needs to be, uh, recognizing These impacts, financial

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:56

impacts on the private sector.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:22:58

And we need more of a partnership there so that we can keep this industry healthy.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:03

You know, we all have our individual efforts, both initiatives and

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:06

priorities, public and private.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:07

But at the end, you know, we need a healthy industry and that

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:10

healthy industry has to account for both sectors of our industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:14

And so I think there's a willingness and a desire to make sure that

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:17

we We're doing the right kinds of things to, to make that happen.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:21

I expect our trends in terms of, um, our association to continue.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:25

We've had, uh, we're closing out on this one of the strongest attendance

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:29

years that we've had, uh, ever at APTA, uh, record attendance levels

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:33

at virtually every conference.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:35

I think that will continue in 24.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:37

In some measure, that reflects the health of the industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:40

The vitalness of the industry.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:42

So we'll continue to nurture that and to work with it.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:45

But, you know, the day to day stuff is still going to be there.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:47

How we get bus service and rail service out there timely, operating well.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:52

We're going to need to come to answers as how best we can deal

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:55

with the issues of public safety.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:57

Which, again, we cannot ignore.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:23:59

Every organization and agency is facing those.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:03

We've got to work, I think, more collaboratively with our local leaders,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:06

mayors, city councils, local social groups to address these issues, because they go

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:13

far beyond transit's ability to solve.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:16

And so we need to be able to do that.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:18

But those are the things, I think, that are key in the agenda

Paul Skoutelas: 00:24:22

that I see us expending more energy and time and effort on.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:25

Petra do you have anything you'd like to add from

Paul Comfort: 00:24:27

the international perspective?

Petra Mollet: 00:24:29

I think something that, uh, two, two areas maybe that we'll

Petra Mollet: 00:24:33

continue to see major project on, uh, pro progress on is, um, the continued

Petra Mollet: 00:24:38

commitment to decarbonizing the sector.

Petra Mollet: 00:24:40

Um, and, uh, we, you know, we're, we're seeing large scale

Petra Mollet: 00:24:44

transitions, certainly to, uh, zero emissions buses around the world.

Petra Mollet: 00:24:49

Uh, Santiago, Chile, which already has the largest bus, uh, electric

Petra Mollet: 00:24:52

bus depot outside of China.

Petra Mollet: 00:24:54

Uh.

Petra Mollet: 00:24:55

which has brought in 900 more buses this year to to have 30 percent of their fleet.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:00

Now, almost 2000 buses already electric.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:04

We saw the same in Australia, New Zealand, a major commitment to a

Petra Mollet: 00:25:08

transition to electric and hydrogen.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:10

Uh, as well, and some interesting examples as well, which I think we'll

Petra Mollet: 00:25:15

see more of in Barcelona, for example, where they're looking at using their,

Petra Mollet: 00:25:19

uh, their energy, the recovered energy from their metro system and using that

Petra Mollet: 00:25:23

to supply electricity to their buses.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:25

So, I think that's one area where we'll continue to see a lot of progress.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:29

And the second is just, I think this will also be the year where we stop.

Petra Mollet: 00:25:32

Uh, internationally, at least comparing ourselves in terms of ridership, uh,

Petra Mollet: 00:25:36

pre to pre pandemic levels and really focus, uh, more on, uh, having a true

Petra Mollet: 00:25:43

understanding, um, uh, from a data perspective on, on new mobility trends

Petra Mollet: 00:25:48

and meeting those new mobility trends, but also perhaps really focusing less

Petra Mollet: 00:25:52

on ridership levels and more on how we build inclusive, equitable, and accessible

Petra Mollet: 00:25:58

transit systems and deliver on that.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:00

That's great.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:01

Paul, if I may, you, you touched on something that I

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:03

didn't address and that is hydrogen as, as a fuel for the future.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:07

And there's no doubt that so many of our agencies now are stepping up, uh,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:11

experimenting with hydrogen, uh, and hydrogen fuel, uh, for propulsion in

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:16

addition to the electric battery buses.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:18

I think it's a very healthy thing.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:20

The industry, the industry, again, is looking for ways.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:22

To be innovative, uh, to be cutting edge, uh, to learn, to experiment.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:28

So we're going to see more of that continuing.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:30

Uh, and I think the jury's still out in terms of what that

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:32

mix might be for the future.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:34

What does the future bus fleet look like?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:36

How much of it is electric battery base versus hydrogen?

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:39

I think we picked up some interesting tidbits along the way from our

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:42

international visits in terms of where they are, but you know, we got to make

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:45

sure that it fits for the U S market.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:26:47

Uh, so that'll be an interesting, I think, uh, focus for the next year coming up.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:52

That's excellent.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:53

Well, thank you both for sharing your time with us today.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:55

Paul, I consider you a five star general in our army as we, uh, as

Paul Comfort: 00:27:00

we advance and Transit Unplugged is happy to be part of the Air Force.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:03

Let me tell you, Paul, thank you for what you do.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:07

I, you know, it's really remarkable.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:09

I, I wish I had more time to kind of delve into some of the detail here, but

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:12

you're all over the place covering what's happening in the industry, doing it so,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:16

so easily and in a fun fashion for people.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:20

So keep up the great work.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:22

Uh, it's a great way to educate us all in terms of things that are happening,

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:25

uh, that we should take note of, not only in the US but across, across the globe.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:29

So keep up the energy and stamina to do all that my friend.

Paul Skoutelas: 00:27:32

Doing great.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:33

Thank you.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:34

We, uh, I'm happy to be a partner with APTA and with UITP and all

Paul Comfort: 00:27:37

the groups around the world.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:38

You know, all of us are transit evangelists and we're showing the

Paul Comfort: 00:27:42

value of public transportation, you know, overall societal.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:45

So thank you for the work you're doing and Petra and TJ and all the team there.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:49

Thank you, Paul.

Paul Comfort: 00:27:50

Thank you, Paul.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:52

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:56

And thank you for listening to the final Transit Unplugged episode of

Tris Hussey: 00:27:59

2023 and a special thank you to our guests, Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollet.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:05

Now coming up next week on Transit Unplugged next year.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:10

We have Congressman Earl Blumenauer.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:14

Talking with Paul about his lifelong support in transit

Tris Hussey: 00:28:18

and his career in politics.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:20

But we do have one more special thing for you before we wrap up the year completely.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:25

We've got a special episode.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:26

By our friends at the overhead wire and talking headways podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:30

Jeff Wood is talking with Dr.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:32

Karel Martens about building more sustainable and accessible cities.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:37

It's really interesting episode about how we approach building our cities.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:42

Listen for that episode to come out December the 29th.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:46

Are you subscribed to the transit unplugged newsletter?

Tris Hussey: 00:28:48

Well head on over to transitunplugged.com and sign up.

Tris Hussey: 00:28:52

Every week we give you the info on the latest episode, let you catch up on

Tris Hussey: 00:28:56

past ones and keep you in the loop with everything that's going on at Transit

Tris Hussey: 00:29:00

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:03

If you have a question comment, or like to be a guest on the show, feel free

Tris Hussey: 00:29:07

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:11

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:14

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:18

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:19

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Tris Hussey: 00:29:24

Ride safe and ride happy.