Is the great hydrogen pivot coming to transit in 2024?

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Edmonton, Canada has the nation's first hydrogen powered

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buses in regular transit service, plus the largest electric bus garage

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housing 50 battery electric buses.

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On today's episode of the Transit Unplugged podcast, we visit the city of

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Edmonton, where I sit down with Deputy City Manager Eddie Robar, a former

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guest on our show, on board one of his two hydrogen powered buses, and we

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talk about the transition to alternate fuels, and their constant hunt for

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renewable energy for innovation in this cold, northernmost city of the Western

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Hemisphere with over a million people.

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Then come with me as I visit Carrie Hotten-MacDonald, who succeeded Eddie

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as GM of the Edmonton Transit Service, as we tour through their huge Kathleen

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Andrews Bus Garage, which is named for their first female bus driver.

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Inside, they house hundreds of buses, including 50 of their

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battery electric charged ones, and she describes how it all works.

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for the vehicles and their drivers.

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We also discussed their oldest in the nation light rail vehicles

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and their newest LRT route that opened the week before we arrived.

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I actually rode that route to the Edmonton Oilers game and you can

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see it in all the hijinks and fun we had on the ride on our Transit

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Unplugged TV show on YouTube this week.

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Plus, you can see the bus Eddie and I talked on, and the whole garage, as Kerry

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walks us through on this audio podcast.

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And, as always, we share the food and fun of the City of Edmonton.

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Plus, highlights from the Canadian Urban Transit Association, or

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CUTA Conference, that was being held there at the same time.

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Check it out when you're done this podcast on our YouTube

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channel, Transit Unplugged TV.

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So Eddie, what does it mean for cities like Edmonton, which is known

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for its oil, but now you're looking into all these other clean energy

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sources like electric and hydrogen?

Eddie Robar: 00:01:48

Yeah, I think the great thing about Alberta is, you

Eddie Robar: 00:01:50

know, we are known for our oil, but really we're known for our energy.

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So when you look at hydrogen, you look at the work we're doing on the

Eddie Robar: 00:01:56

hydrogen space, it's really about the energy movement for Alberta.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:00

Alberta is prime for the work we do, we're definitely well versed in

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the energy sector, like we have the people here, the talent here, the

Eddie Robar: 00:02:07

technical ability to do all this work.

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So being innovative, being on the forefront of this work, makes it a

Eddie Robar: 00:02:12

lot easier when you have all of this around you to be able to do that.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:15

We've been in the hydrogen space for over 50 years, whether it's been

Eddie Robar: 00:02:18

through different, different industries.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:20

But now we're looking to say, to change that, that momentum for the province

Eddie Robar: 00:02:24

of Alberta and really convert our province into that number one delivery

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of of sustainable fuel for the world.

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and obviously that comes with an energy background and how do we do that.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:33

So, you know, being known for the energy that we do have and changing

Eddie Robar: 00:02:36

ourselves to a more sustainable fuel is a great place to be.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:38

For us, you know, that electrification journey for us started with our battery

Eddie Robar: 00:02:42

electric buses and now we're pushing into the hydrogen space and that pivot.

Eddie Robar: 00:02:46

But really, it's about how do you convert electric fleets?

Eddie Robar: 00:02:48

And I think one big question we've had from a lot of the people that, that have

Eddie Robar: 00:02:51

run transit systems is, what's your plan and how do you get to the point where

Eddie Robar: 00:02:55

you're getting 100 percent electric fleet?

Eddie Robar: 00:02:57

Well, how do you build that out?

Eddie Robar: 00:02:58

And, and we do that through different ways.

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One where we're using our electrification program was a start, a battery electric.

Eddie Robar: 00:03:04

Now we're pivoting to hydrogen electric.

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We're building a brand new transit garage that's going to help us do that.

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We call that our swing garage.

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So when we look at electrifying fleets, you need a place, infrastructure.

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Places where you can do this work and build that out in your fleet.

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So we're looking to build a new transit garage, which will

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be built in this budget cycle.

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We're starting to build it.

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That garage itself is built for hydrogen electric buses and that

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conversion, but also diesel.

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So we're taking, we have five different garages right now.

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We're going to be filling up that new garage with diesel buses and

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then converting the fleet over and turning that fleet over.

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Then we're going to build another garage after that, that's only electric.

Eddie Robar: 00:03:41

Okay.

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So we're able to kind of pick up those electric vehicles, shift them

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over to a new garage, and then do the process all over again in that garage.

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So we move all the buses, diesel buses, into the, uh, swing garage,

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convert the fleet over, then move them to the new garage after that.

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You also built, like, I think the biggest battery

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electric garage in Canada or America.

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What was that about?

Eddie Robar: 00:04:01

Yeah, I think for us, we were, uh, like I said,

Eddie Robar: 00:04:04

we're not afraid of innovation.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:05

We're always talking about You know, how do we spark the industry move to

Eddie Robar: 00:04:08

electrification at the time for us battery electric was kind of the way to go.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:13

Uh, we wanted to test that in that theory of battery electric

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in cold weather climates.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:17

Uh, we want to do that in a real tangible way.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:19

We have a thousand bus fleet.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:21

We have 60 of those buses that are electrified right now

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and battery electric buses.

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We were able to really test whether or not that will be good for our

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climate, making sure that we get the range that we need out of the

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vehicles for a bus is a bus is a bus.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:32

Uh, we didn't know we didn't want to do on street charging.

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We wanted to have in depot charging, which you'll see in our, our transit garage here

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in Kathleen Andrews, which is a fantastic garage, uh, but shows you that showcase

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of in depot charging, what that means.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:44

but for us, it's about range.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:45

Everything is about range.

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So are we going to get the range that we need?

Eddie Robar: 00:04:48

In the cold weather, uh, I always tell people I don't care what a bus can do

Eddie Robar: 00:04:52

in the summer, I only care what it can do in minus 20 or minus 30 degrees.

Eddie Robar: 00:04:55

And we're learning that as we're kind of building that out, right?

Eddie Robar: 00:04:58

So, that electrification program started there.

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We learned a ton.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:02

Uh, we shared a ton with the industry on, on what we've learned and where we're at.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:06

And, you know, all of those things that people can avoid that we maybe

Eddie Robar: 00:05:08

did not so right in the first, uh, the first foray when you're kind of those

Eddie Robar: 00:05:11

ones on the forefront of innovation.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:13

But, uh, and now we're on the forefront of innovation with the hydrogen sector too.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:17

And we think.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:18

This pivot for us is going to give us what we need to really manage

Eddie Robar: 00:05:21

our program here in Edmonton.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:24

So Eddie, we're sitting here on one of your, uh, hydrogen buses

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at the Canadian Urban Transit Association conference on the showroom floor.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:31

You have the first couple buses that are powered by hydrogen in

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regular operation in transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:05:37

So tell us about how all this works and what you're doing here in Edmonton.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:40

Yeah, sure thing.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:40

So this, this bus is powered by a hydrogen fuel cell, a Ballard hydrogen fuel cell.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:45

It is really the conversion of our battery electric program.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:47

We're going from battery electric and now we're pivoting to the hydrogen.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:51

And we're doing that with our fuel cell electric bus.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:53

This is a fully electrified bus.

Eddie Robar: 00:05:54

Really, it's the first real 100 percent electric bus that we have

Eddie Robar: 00:05:58

because the battery electrics we have actually have a diesel heater on board.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:01

So this is the first fully electric bus for the city of Edmonton itself.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:05

Uh, it has a hydrogen fuel cell from Ballard.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:07

Uh, really, oxygen comes into the fuel cell itself.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:10

We take hydrogen from the tanks above.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:12

We have 36 kilogram tanks on the roof.

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That hydrogen gets pushed into the fuel cell, we mix that with oxygen,

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and the chemical reaction inside that fuel cell creates electricity, energy,

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for us to propel the vehicle forward.

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So, that byproduct of this fuel cell is heat and water.

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So, uh, with the tailpipe, it just comes nice, clean water.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:33

Seeing people drink it out of the tailpipe, believe it or not.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:36

Uh, but also the heat from the fuel cell, we recover to heat the bus itself.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:41

So unlike the battery electric buses, where you're looking at heating that bus

Eddie Robar: 00:06:44

through a diesel heater, we're able to recover the heat off the fuel cell and

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build that, uh, into the bus itself and really warm that vehicle from there.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:52

So it gives us extra distance.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:54

Big great thing about this bus and why we pivoted more

Eddie Robar: 00:06:56

to this hydrogen electric bus.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:58

Is because of range.

Eddie Robar: 00:06:59

So when we look at range degradation in the wintertime, it gets pretty

Eddie Robar: 00:07:02

cold here in the city of Edmonton, you can imagine, in the winter.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:05

So in order for us to get the range that we require from our bus, we really

Eddie Robar: 00:07:09

are looking for that bus to go about 400 kilometres or more in our service.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:13

And this bus here, the range at minus 20, minus 25, has been

Eddie Robar: 00:07:17

giving us about 450 kilometres of distance, which is fantastic.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:21

And we don't see that range degradation that we're getting

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out of the battery electric buses.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:25

So we're pretty excited.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:26

about the hydrogen program itself, what this first bus means for the city of

Eddie Robar: 00:07:30

Edmonton, building the hydrogen economy here in Alberta, and being that number

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one producer of hydrogen for the world.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:35

Uh, you and I First met each other several years ago,

Paul Comfort: 00:07:38

I think at another Canadian Urban Transit Conference, maybe in Calgary?

Paul Comfort: 00:07:42

It was, yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:43

And we got to interview you then, and then you were what's called the branch

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manager of the Edmonton Transit Service.

Paul Comfort: 00:07:48

Tell us what that title means, and what's happened in your career since then.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:53

Yeah, so the Branch Manager of Edmonton Transit is

Eddie Robar: 00:07:55

really the director of all transit services in the city of Edmonton.

Eddie Robar: 00:07:58

So I'd moved from Halifax where I had ran the transit service there.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:02

Oh, where Dave is now.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:02

Where Dave Reedy is now, yeah, and I moved over to the City of Edmonton

Eddie Robar: 00:08:07

to run their transit service.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:08

I did that for about five years.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:09

Uh, I'm a long term, long time transit guy.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:12

I've been in transit for, uh, 20, 20 years before moving out of that space and

Eddie Robar: 00:08:17

into more of a fleet and facilities role.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:20

So, I was looking to kind of grow the scope of my career, um, looking for an

Eddie Robar: 00:08:25

ability for myself to move up, obviously.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:27

And, uh, and kind of did took a little lateral move in the work that I did, but

Eddie Robar: 00:08:31

obviously as the branch manager, really looking at transit service is kind of a

Eddie Robar: 00:08:34

passion of mine, and it's always been a passion of mine, so, uh, when this job

Eddie Robar: 00:08:38

came up as the deputy city manager of city operations for the city itself, that

Eddie Robar: 00:08:42

includes ETS, waste services, parks and roads, and fleet and facilities, uh, our

Eddie Robar: 00:08:47

fleet group works, uh, with the buses, uh, the transit buses, And then obviously

Eddie Robar: 00:08:51

ETS runs the service, and the trains.

Eddie Robar: 00:08:55

So, it was a no brainer for me to kind of jump back in that space and be able

Eddie Robar: 00:08:58

to make sure that, you know, I still keep my hat in the ring on everything

Eddie Robar: 00:09:01

transit, the strategy going forward, how do we build programs like these

Eddie Robar: 00:09:05

electrification programs, and how we build out the city to be, you know, one of

Eddie Robar: 00:09:09

the best transit systems in the country.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:10

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:11

So talk to, um, A young person, maybe in their 20s or 30s, who

Paul Comfort: 00:09:15

is in public transportation, listening to this program about possible career paths

Paul Comfort: 00:09:19

and how you and I chose similar ones.

Paul Comfort: 00:09:22

Transit into kind of a larger local government role.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:25

Yeah, I think it's funny because, um, I

Eddie Robar: 00:09:27

started as a transit scheduler.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:29

So I came out of university, you know, my degree wasn't in the space of transit.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:34

Fell into a transit role not long after I graduated.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:37

Started as a scheduler.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:38

Built myself up through that platform to running transit systems.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:41

And then eventually into this, this more political, you know, role, but

Eddie Robar: 00:09:45

an influencer role in terms of, what we're able to do and how we're able

Eddie Robar: 00:09:49

to guide and, and kind of steer the direction strategy of transportation

Eddie Robar: 00:09:53

systems, but of cities as well.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:54

And I think the, the ideal thing for me and the move for me was

Eddie Robar: 00:09:58

really about city building.

Eddie Robar: 00:09:59

And when you look at city building, you know, great cities have great transit.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:04

and that was always in the back of my mind is, you know, how do you become.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:07

Bigger part of that, that city building conversation versus just

Eddie Robar: 00:10:11

the operation of a transit system.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:13

And, and how do you use that transit system to influence

Eddie Robar: 00:10:15

the way we shape cities?

Paul Comfort: 00:10:17

Yeah, I interviewed Marco for the podcast yesterday.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:20

Marco D'Angelo, uh, who is the executive director of CUTA and he talked about

Paul Comfort: 00:10:26

the study they just had out on housing and, uh, and housing improvements

Paul Comfort: 00:10:30

and we talked through all the details of the study's recommendations.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:34

It really is a much bigger picture, for public transportation.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:37

We're not, like, in a silo by ourselves.

Paul Comfort: 00:10:39

We're serving larger aims, right?

Eddie Robar: 00:10:41

Yeah, absolutely.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:42

I think, you know, as far as, you know, integrating what it means to,

Eddie Robar: 00:10:46

to what a transit system can provide.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:48

For a city, you know, it's multifaceted, you know, it's not just, you know, buses

Eddie Robar: 00:10:53

running up and down the street or trains running up and down the street and

Eddie Robar: 00:10:54

moving people to a job every single day.

Eddie Robar: 00:10:56

It really is something that influences life, that can, can

Eddie Robar: 00:10:59

help ease people's lives and can make things easier for folks.

Eddie Robar: 00:11:02

And I think, as we build the housing situation out, you know, getting more

Eddie Robar: 00:11:06

affordable housing, but having that, that burden of transportation off

Eddie Robar: 00:11:10

your mind as you're looking for places to live, um, is, is a huge benefit.

Eddie Robar: 00:11:14

And having a transit system that supports that and builds that out and offers a

Eddie Robar: 00:11:18

much more economical option for people to, to co-locate or to be in places of the

Eddie Robar: 00:11:23

city where they thought they might not be able to be, and, and live and have their

Eddie Robar: 00:11:27

kids grow up and, and be a part of that network just based on a transit system,

Eddie Robar: 00:11:31

uh, is a pretty awesome opportunity when you look at reshaping cities.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:34

Thank you.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:36

Registration for Trapeze and Vontas annual Think Transit conference is now open.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:42

Join me and hundreds of your transit industry peers at one of the most

Paul Comfort: 00:11:46

anticipated conferences of the year.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:48

If you haven't attended Think Transit before, let me tell you a bit about it.

Paul Comfort: 00:11:52

Think Transit is a conference where transit and rail professionals

Paul Comfort: 00:11:56

gather to make strides in leading mobility technology.

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Think Transit delivers practical, hands on training coupled with insights from

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industry thought leaders and your peers.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:05

Over three days, you'll immerse yourself in mobility trends, explore solutions

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for industry challenges, and engage with transit experts from across the globe.

Paul Comfort: 00:12:15

Plus, there's a special all day executive summit on Monday, hosted

Paul Comfort: 00:12:19

by me, Paul Comfort, for transit executives from transit agencies,

Paul Comfort: 00:12:23

and they share best practices and tackle industry challenges together.

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Each year, we hear from attendees who tell us the best thing about Think

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Transit is everything they learn, inside and outside of the sessions and how they

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built a list of connections from across North America who they can call on for

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insights and advice for years to come.

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Think Transit will take place from March 24th through 27th, 2024 at the JW

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If you register before January 31st, 2024, you'll be eligible for incredible cost

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To register, visit www.

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com forward slash thinktransit.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:05

What a great interview with Eddie Robar.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:08

Now let's head over to the Kathleen Andrews garage where we take

Paul Comfort: 00:13:11

a tour walking through it with the GM Carrie Hotten-MacDonald

Paul Comfort: 00:13:16

Carrie thanks for having us in this is an amazing garage.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:19

Tell us about it.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:19

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Oh, we're so excited that you're here So this is

Paul Comfort: 00:13:21

our Kathleen Andrews Transit Garage.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:23

It's our newest bus garage that we have with an ETS service.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:27

Kathleen Andrews is an inspiration.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:29

She's our first woman transit operator.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:32

She joined us in the 1970s.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:33

It was a very different time.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:35

She had a very difficult start.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:38

Uh, her daughter actually works for us now.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:39

She's a training instructor, and we're just really excited that

Paul Comfort: 00:13:42

the garage was named after her.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:44

. So, in the garage, we actually have some memorabilia.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:46

It's a little bit of an archive of some of our history, which is really cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:50

So ETS has been around for about 115 years, um, and over those

Paul Comfort: 00:13:55

years staff have contributed.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:57

So we can see examples.

Paul Comfort: 00:13:59

Uh, as you can see, we have pictures on the wall showing lots of history.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:03

Uh, looking at, uh, news articles, pictures of the old fleet.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:07

And you have Canada's first light rail system.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:10

And it's newest light rail system, right?

Paul Comfort: 00:14:12

Yeah, we rode that last night.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:14

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:15

We have the oldest LRT.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:17

Uh, those cars are going to be replaced, uh, in a few years.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:20

Thanks to some funding that we just got.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:22

Oh, great.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:22

And then we have the newest with the Valley Line Southeast.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:24

Uh, which is more of a low floor, urban style LRT, helping people connect.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:30

Uh, and we're just really excited to have both.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:32

So within the garage for operators, when they come in for work, they actually get

Paul Comfort: 00:14:35

to come to this beautiful dispatch, area.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:38

And they sign in for their shift and then they're able to go out back, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:14:42

to get to their buses in the morning.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:43

Uh, we have their running boards and everything ready for

Paul Comfort: 00:14:46

them, right adjacent to you.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:47

This this area and then at the end we also have their operator lounge and

Paul Comfort: 00:14:52

the operator lounge is super cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:53

Let's go Let's check it out.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:54

Let's take a look.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:55

Yeah,

Paul Comfort: 00:14:56

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: So our operators use this space.

Paul Comfort: 00:14:58

So when they have a break, when they come off of the morning peak, or maybe at the

Paul Comfort: 00:15:01

end of their shift, they can come in here, get a drink, they can heat up their food.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:05

Play a little pool.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:06

Play some pool.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:06

You got a pool table in here.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:08

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:08

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:08

They get to hang out, chill out, enjoy this space, and we're just really pleased.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:12

And I think going forward, making sure That we have sufficient space so people

Paul Comfort: 00:15:16

can relax, decompress after their shift, get themselves ready to head out.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:22

So, we're really pleased with this space.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:23

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:25

So we're walking in the garage right here.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:27

You've got lots of buses around.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:29

Uh, they are a beautiful blue color up top that says Edmonton Transit Service on it.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:34

And then gray on the bottom half.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:35

But do you separate them from The electric ones from the diesel ones

Paul Comfort: 00:15:39

here in this indoor garage where you have all your vehicles parked?

Paul Comfort: 00:15:42

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: We do, because of the overhead charging infrastructure.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:45

We have, as you can see, a whole corridor dedicated for our electric fleet.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:50

Okay.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:50

So you can see that the overhead charging, pantograph comes down,

Paul Comfort: 00:15:54

makes contact with the bus.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:56

so we have them all lined up together.

Paul Comfort: 00:15:58

And how many buses in total in your entire

Paul Comfort: 00:16:00

fleet here at Edmonton Transit?

Paul Comfort: 00:16:02

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: That's a great question.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:03

So we have about 1, 100 conventional buses, uh, in the fleet, and then

Paul Comfort: 00:16:07

we also have, uh, on the paratransit side, we have another set, uh,

Paul Comfort: 00:16:11

of the smaller paratransit buses.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:14

So this is where we have our charging infrastructure.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:16

So again, in depot first in North America to take this approach.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:21

And you can see the pantographs come down from the ceiling.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:24

And they make contact with the bus.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:26

And then they charge the bus's battery.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:28

Which is really cool to see.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:30

We can accommodate up to about 50 buses that are battery electric in this

Paul Comfort: 00:16:34

facility with the charging infrastructure.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:36

So I believe there's about 22 different units that we have

Paul Comfort: 00:16:39

in this particular corridor.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:40

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:41

And so it takes about four hours and then you move some of them out and the

Paul Comfort: 00:16:44

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: other group comes in?

Paul Comfort: 00:16:45

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:46

That's exactly what it provides.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:47

So when they come in from service, they go through the bus wash and then

Paul Comfort: 00:16:50

they're able to come and line up in the garage just like any other buses.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:53

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:54

But the difference being they have this overhead.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:56

pantograph, to charge the batteries.

Paul Comfort: 00:16:58

And did you have to, like, specially wire this garage, I'm sure,

Paul Comfort: 00:17:01

for the power that would be required?

Paul Comfort: 00:17:02

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: For sure.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:03

What was really exciting is we were working on the garage, and then

Paul Comfort: 00:17:06

we really kind of zeroed in on the opportunities for that in depot charging.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:10

So things like we had to get different flooring because the buses are heavier.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:14

So we had to look at making sure the design specs met the

Paul Comfort: 00:17:17

requirements for these buses.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:19

so it was really interesting to take that into consideration during the process

Paul Comfort: 00:17:23

of planning and designing a garage.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:25

That's good.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:25

Let's walk inside one and maybe tell me about inside.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:32

So I'm sitting in the operator's seat here.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:34

Tell me what I need to know as an operator.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:36

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Does it feel like old hands?

Paul Comfort: 00:17:37

Like you want to get behind the wheel?

Paul Comfort: 00:17:38

I gave my CDL up a couple of years ago.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:42

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: So what's really neat about this bus, as

Paul Comfort: 00:17:44

you can see, we have our Smart Fare, validator for fare payments.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:47

So that's a regional Smart Fare implementation.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:50

so a person boards the bus, they're able to tap and then they

Paul Comfort: 00:17:52

can head to the back of the bus.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:54

From an operator's perspective, it's not all that different.

Paul Comfort: 00:17:57

So we did do, uh, training for the operators to help them understand

Paul Comfort: 00:18:01

kind of how the bus operates.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:03

And it was mostly about answering questions.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:06

I think operators were wondering like, how different is it?

Paul Comfort: 00:18:09

You know, but really a bus is a bus.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:11

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:11

And you know, if you're a professional.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:13

bus operator with us, you can definitely operate this bus safely

Paul Comfort: 00:18:17

. So the other cool feature on our buses, uh, we implemented this

Paul Comfort: 00:18:21

in 2019 on the entire fleet.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:23

We have a retractable operator shield, which is super cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:28

You know, if you think about safety and security, you think about, obviously

Paul Comfort: 00:18:31

we went through a pandemic, being able to raise this window up if needed.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:36

Or you can leave it down to interact with your riders.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:38

But this was a really important investment for us, and the operators

Paul Comfort: 00:18:42

really appreciate having it.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:42

I bet you they do.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:43

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:44

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:44

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:44

When I was in Baltimore, we put these in, and uh, it really helped, uh, reduce

Paul Comfort: 00:18:49

negative interactions between passengers.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:51

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:52

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:52

Riders, really respected.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:53

I love your sign here.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:55

It says, zero tolerance of assaulting an operator.

Paul Comfort: 00:18:57

It's a criminal offense, and offenders will be prosecuted right on the door.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:00

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: For sure.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:01

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:01

We, we lay out the expectation.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:02

We work closely with ATU.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:03

We have an operator, uh, assault task force.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:06

We work really closely on safety and security related, uh, elements.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:10

And that was one of the things that we worked together on.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:13

So Carrie this it's very cold up here in Edmonton.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:16

I know you're like way up north in Canada.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:19

Do you have to park all your vehicles inside?

Paul Comfort: 00:19:20

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Yeah, it's a decision we made.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:22

So we bring all of the vehicles indoors.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:24

We are the northernmost kind of large city.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:26

Yeah in North America.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:28

So we definitely have winter weather.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:30

I don't mind, but some people do.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:32

Uh, so all of the vehicles come inside.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:34

So this particular facility is over 400, 000 square feet.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:37

So it's quite large.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:39

It can accommodate a big fleet, uh, which we value.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:41

We actually have another growth garage coming.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:44

Uh, we're in the planning and design stage for it.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:46

That'll house 400 buses and it's going to be completely zero emission.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:50

So I'm really, really excited about that too.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:51

Yeah, Eddie was telling me about that.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:53

And what's underneath this floor?

Paul Comfort: 00:19:55

That's what I think is cool too.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:56

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Yeah, so underneath is actually

Paul Comfort: 00:19:58

parking for the operators.

Paul Comfort: 00:19:59

So It's funny when people say, well, don't the operators use transit?

Paul Comfort: 00:20:02

Well, they actually operate transit.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:04

They don't necessarily have access to a bus at 3 in the

Paul Comfort: 00:20:08

morning or 4 in the morning.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:09

You have to come here to get it.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:10

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:11

So we have underground, uh, parking for them.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:13

We also have, uh, all of the power systems, uh, that are supporting

Paul Comfort: 00:20:18

the charging infrastructure as well.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:19

Oh, underneath here.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:20

Yeah, exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:20

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:21

And this building, it's like shiny metal, like aluminum on the outside.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:26

Amazing!

Paul Comfort: 00:20:27

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: It is, yeah, so the architecture is really cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:32

It had a very intentional design and we're just really proud of,

Paul Comfort: 00:20:35

you know, it blends I think that industrial with like a modern feel.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:39

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:40

And again, for the people working here, the contrast with, as you

Paul Comfort: 00:20:44

know, older style transit garages.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:46

Yes.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:46

Dark, dingy, very, you know.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:48

Right.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:49

This feels super modern.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:51

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:52

But I like your homage to the old industrial past here.

Paul Comfort: 00:20:55

What's that big, like, smokestack sitting by itself?

Paul Comfort: 00:20:58

Was there an old factory there or something?

Paul Comfort: 00:20:59

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: There was, exactly, exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:01

So it's really cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:01

This is repurposing existing land.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:04

We wanted to protect kind of the history and heritage of it.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:07

So that old smokestack is really important and it's significant to the city.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:11

And we're just really proud to be able to have a facility like this.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:15

You know, and still preserve some of that history of the existing

Paul Comfort: 00:21:18

kind of site that we're on.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:19

So where are we at now?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:20

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: So this is where all of the bus

Paul Comfort: 00:21:22

maintenance activity takes place.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:23

So all of the maintenance is done in this facility, and as you

Paul Comfort: 00:21:26

can see, the spaces between bus staging where the operators are.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:29

It's right next door.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:30

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:30

In the same building.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:31

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:32

So who drives the vehicles inside the building?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:34

Yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:34

Does your driver bring it in and somebody else parks it because

Paul Comfort: 00:21:37

they're super tight in here?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:38

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Yeah, no.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:38

Operators get it parked, but we do have a staff person.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:42

Working on the maintenance side who helps when it's time to

Paul Comfort: 00:21:45

move buses within the space.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:47

Right.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:47

We have a position that does that.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:49

And you do all the preventive maintenance

Paul Comfort: 00:21:50

as well as repair work here?

Paul Comfort: 00:21:51

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: That's right.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:52

Everything is done here.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:53

So we have a very, very talented maintenance team.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:55

And they look after all of our buses.

Paul Comfort: 00:21:57

And how has it been for you post pandemic

Paul Comfort: 00:21:59

recruiting operators and mechanics?

Paul Comfort: 00:22:01

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Yeah, we've done really well on the operator side.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:04

I think it's an attractive position.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:06

You know, we have great benefits.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:09

In addition to benefits, we have a pension plan.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:11

So our numbers are good.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:13

It's just making sure that we have the HR staff to actually

Paul Comfort: 00:22:17

process everything in a timely way.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:19

That's been my challenge.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:20

On the maintenance side, it's more difficult.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:22

So I think as we all know in the industry, it's tough to find

Paul Comfort: 00:22:24

those heavy equipment techs.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:27

And making sure, because we're competing with the private sector, making sure

Paul Comfort: 00:22:30

that we get access to that talent pool and that we can bring them in.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:34

So that's always an ongoing challenge.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:36

So Carrie, this building you said was very intentionally designed.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:39

Tell me about the artwork and some of the other facets of

Paul Comfort: 00:22:41

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: it.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:42

It's really cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:42

So we have public art.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:44

Uh, so on top of the building you'll actually see these pillars that are there.

Paul Comfort: 00:22:48

And they have latitude and longitude painted on each pillar, and it

Paul Comfort: 00:22:53

reflects mountain regions that are at the same latitude as this garage,

Paul Comfort: 00:22:58

which is so unique and different, it makes people question, what is that?

Paul Comfort: 00:23:02

But you can definitely see it, so as you're kind of in this area,

Paul Comfort: 00:23:06

it definitely catches your eye, and it's a bit unique for us.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:10

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:15

Tell us a little about your brand new LRT line that just started just very recently.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:18

We got to ride it, uh, to the, uh Edmonton Oilers game the other night.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:23

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Oh that's so good, I'm glad you tried it.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:25

So it's a low floor urban style LRT that we've added to our network.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:29

So we have high floor LRT and this is a new style that we're adding.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:33

So it takes a person from downtown all the way to Mill Woods which is a community

Paul Comfort: 00:23:36

on the southeast side of the city.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:38

And along the way we have stops that include Indigenous

Paul Comfort: 00:23:41

artwork so you can actually do a walking tour of indigenous art.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:45

Attacha, which is super cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:47

And then the line itself, it's 30 minutes for the entire

Paul Comfort: 00:23:50

trip, so 60 minute return trip.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:53

Same fare as our entire network, which is great, so it's fully accessible.

Paul Comfort: 00:23:57

And what I love seeing, and I've been riding it a lot, a lot

Paul Comfort: 00:24:01

of children are on the trains.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:03

So people are using it as an opportunity to teach kids about transit, and there's

Paul Comfort: 00:24:07

so much enthusiasm, which is really cool.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:09

We've also heard stories of seniors who hadn't been downtown in years,

Paul Comfort: 00:24:13

and now they're like, I'm going to hop on the train and I can get there.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:16

Workers, it connects people to a hospital that's a major employer.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:19

So people are just seamlessly traveling with transit now,

Paul Comfort: 00:24:22

instead of looking at other modes.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:24

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:25

So

Paul Comfort: 00:24:25

this is another area for our staff and our operators.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:29

And what I like about it is we have kind of individual pods.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:31

Again, if people need time to kind of, you know, recoup and kind of re

Paul Comfort: 00:24:36

energize themselves after a shift, it's a great opportunity to do that.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:39

We also have an opportunity here if you're up for it, you can do

Paul Comfort: 00:24:44

some recreational kind of activity.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:45

Exactly, we've got ping pong.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:47

We have the operator changing rooms as well, but it's a nice big open space.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:51

Yeah, I like how modern it looks.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:53

You've got these, uh, white square lights over top.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:57

It's high roofs, industrial looking.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:59

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:24:59

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: It's really great looking.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:00

Yeah, it's really, really nice.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:01

Very modern.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:01

Exactly.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:02

Art Deco and all that.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:03

Yeah, it's awesome.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:04

We also have meeting rooms and training rooms.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:06

There's your training room, yeah.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:07

Um, that are on this level as well, so that provides another opportunity.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:11

Uh, so whether it's continuous training for the operators or part of

Paul Comfort: 00:25:13

the basic operator training program, uh, we can use this facility in

Paul Comfort: 00:25:17

addition to the others that we have.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:19

So we're outside the building, this

Paul Comfort: 00:25:21

phenomenal building, Carrie.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:22

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:24

It's incredible.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:25

Yeah,

Paul Comfort: 00:25:25

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: So this is one of six facilities

Paul Comfort: 00:25:27

that we have for ETS service.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:29

and so you've been general manager here for three and a half years

Paul Comfort: 00:25:31

since Eddie moved up to, Eddie Robar moved up to the deputy city manager.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:35

In your time as GM, what are you most proud of?

Paul Comfort: 00:25:37

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Oh, I think what I'm most proud of, honestly, is just all

Paul Comfort: 00:25:40

the work that we put in as a leadership team to work with our city council.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:44

Fun fact Our mayor used to be a transit operator with us.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:47

So if anyone understands transit, it's definitely our mayor.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:50

So they've made important investments.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:52

So they gave us over 700 million of investments.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:56

We're finally replacing the aging LRT cars.

Paul Comfort: 00:25:59

They've invested in off peak service, which has huge equity outcomes.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:03

They've just been very generous in supporting our plans.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:07

And I think it proves that if you put your heads together, can talk

Paul Comfort: 00:26:10

really, uh, strategically with your governors and paint that path for them.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:16

If we do this, after that, we could do this, and then

Paul Comfort: 00:26:19

after that, we could do this.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:20

And as you look to the future over the next year

Paul Comfort: 00:26:22

or two, what are the game plans?

Paul Comfort: 00:26:23

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: So we're growing our mass transit network.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:26

It's bigger than LRT.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:27

We're looking at bus based growth.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:29

We're going to grow our service hours to serve more people.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:32

And that's what I'm most proud of, is that they have the confidence in us and

Paul Comfort: 00:26:36

everything that we're bringing forward.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:37

That's great.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:38

Well, thank you so much for having us here today and showing

Paul Comfort: 00:26:40

us your amazing Kathleen Grudge.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:43

This is great.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:43

What a great story, and we wish you all the best as you continue to go forward.

Paul Comfort: 00:26:47

Carrie Hotton-MacDonald: Oh thank you so much Paul; it's been great.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:51

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit Unplugged podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:54

And thank you for listening to this week's episode.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:57

And a special thanks to our two guests.

Tris Hussey: 00:26:59

Eddie Robar and Carrie Hotten-MacDonald.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:02

Now coming up next week, we stay in Edmonton.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:05

And at CUTA with Arthur Nicolet CEO of Transdev Canada.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:11

Paul is in conversation with Arthur about what contracting means for

Tris Hussey: 00:27:16

delivering transit, not just in Canada, but around the world.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:20

And don't worry, we're not done yet for this year.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:22

We still have our year-end wrap-up and a special bonus episode that

Tris Hussey: 00:27:27

think you're going to really enjoy.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:29

While you're listening to the podcast.

Tris Hussey: 00:27:31

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